XI vs XIV. How XIV is/can/should evolve above it's predecessor

[Draven]

I've been finding it really difficult to articulate the thoughts in my head to explain why I feel XIV does NOT need to be like XI.

In this post I'm going to attempt to explain my personal feelings, some of which I think many people have but are lost in the larger demand for more things to be like XI.



Auction house Vs Market Wards

This method is very quick, very easy and very boring. I'm against the use of an AH because mostly I think it's too simple. Perhaps there's something more interesting to me about the market wards and retainers in there current form. I like searching for the items, just like you would in an AH, but instead of running a mail box for the items for example, I go to a specific ward and see a players retainer. Some of them are quite interesting to look at also. I feel like the amount of time it takes to get things in the market wards is very similar to the time it takes with your average AH system.

And when it comes to selling with retainers, I search for what the average price is, just like an AH, and then tell my retainer what I would like to sell the same price for. Again, not much of a time difference for me. The only difference I can see between the Market Wards/Retainers and an Auction House is a minor cut down in time sink.

Job System Vs Armory System

One of the most surprising and alarming things from the start of XIV was the removal of classic Final Fantasy jobs like Redmage, Blackmage, Monk, Dragoon, ect. while I was forgiving at first, later I realized and I think SE did also just how important it is to have these in XIV.

Now there's a lot of debate on how to implement those jobs in XIV. Some people want to remove the Armory system entirely because they feel there is no class uniqueness, no roles to fit into but I disagree. I think there is plenty of hints of uniqueness.

Starting with the fact that we're all holding different weapons, we have a visual uniqueness among us. It's less defined though I'll admit since many like Gladiator to Marauder look almost identical wearing Chain Mail next to each other. Still I look around and I can quickly identify who is who just by what they're holding. SE can tune this even further, if they're not already, by adjusting gear specifics. In other words, a Gladiator and Marauder will look much more unique if they Gladiator is wearing Full Plate earlier in the game rather than Chain Mail just like the Maruader. Change the clothes a little bit and you'll quickly start to see some differences in the way we all look.

And when it comes to roles, I think it's pretty obvious who is supposed to be doing what. Especially since before the game even launched the official site told us what they are most preferably good for. Even the skills and what order you get them is clue enough for me what they're aimed for. Conjurer gets healing spells early. Safe to say they are good for people who want to play White Mage. What I really like about Conjurers is around the same time, they get dmg spells. This is great because it's indicating they're good for more than just healing, they can and should be casting DD spells as well. There's a lot of flexibility in just leveling one class in XIV and I like that a lot.

So what's the difference between XI and XIV? Well equipping weapons on the fly without running back to a Mog house for one. I think we can all logically agree this is a better system by this alone. The armory system allows for a lot of customization that was not possible in XI. Because we were restricted to just one sub job at a time, players quickly defined what was an acceptable sub job to have, and what wasn't. XI's freedom of choice was completely lost when 2/3 of the players were running around /NIN just for dual wielding. There is an incredible amount of freedom to customize your characters in XIV because you're not limited right now by anyone but yourself. We can make whatever we want and more efficiently than in XI.

I say keep the current system we have, just add to it. Create an unlockable class after reaching a certain level with the class your using. For example level Conjurer to 20 and then you can speak to an NPC in the Conjurer guild, take a quest and then become a White Mage. Not only a name, but include skills that ONLY a White Mage can use, like Holy, and then that class uniqueness and Final Fantasy feeling will fill us all with joy.

One thing that came to my mind is, well if everyone can have almost everything then what's stopping a Pugilist using Conjurer healing, Thaumaturge Absorb? A monk healing and absorbing doesn't sound very Final Fantasy. And that's true, it sounds out of place but then I realized that while nothing can and shouldn't stop players from doing that in solo activities, it would be pointless to do it in parties when thats what the other members are for. The Conjurer can heal you, the Thaumaturge can create an absorb effect for all party members upon attacking the monster, so you're free to equip skills more useful to play your role more effectively.

*phew* Those are the big ones. Again, it's hard to get what I'm thinking across in black and white words so bear with me if this is a little hard to follow.

Basically, keep the armory system, change our clothes a little, make classic names unlockable with exclusive skills and we're done I think.


BCNM vs Faction Leves

So BCNMs. Here's a part of XI that was fun for it's time but makes no sense to me and should definitely not be part of XIV in the same way it was in XI. How artificial it felt to jump on a teleport and go to a single room full of monsters that seem to have no other purpose other than to stand there, facing the entrance, waiting for adventurers to come fight them.

Faction Leves, while lacking in the challenge are a better idea than BCNMs already in my opinion because you're running around and fighting in the open world rather than traveling to a single isolated room.

Perhaps while participating in a faction leve, you have a key to a locked door or there was a device that teleported the party to a mission only area, where you fight a group of hostile enemies in a big area for gil and gear, I'd be highly in favor of that.


XI instances vs XIV instances

Dynamis, Sky and all those other types of instances in XI were NOT casual player friendly at all I think because you were forced to complete a certain number of missions before accessing the area. XIV needs dungeons just for the sake of having dungeons because there's nothing wrong with having classic dungeons. The kind of dungeons that anybody can go into, anytime but would only be smart to go into when you go with your friends. Along the way, you'll fight stronger monsters and of course you'll get some nice loot.

If SE want to make these also available because you completed some missions, then that's cool too but not the only way to qualify for the experience and not the only way to get cool gear.

[Draven]

Mog House vs Retainers

I liked Mog houses but I didn't like needing to go to my Mog house. A personal room is fun to put furniture and toy models in I think and it's all good, but not important enough to put high priority on. Retainers will do for now when it comes to holding my junk. I can wait for this in an Xpac after the current game is fixed and some more important things given to us.


Chocobos/Airships vs Anima

Not really a XI thing, more like a Final Fantasy thing. Looking forward to this just as much of you I'll admit, but don't hate the Anima system because we don't have these. The Anima system is great and if you're out of Anima that's because you're not running enough. Don't complain about running in XIV if you played XI because you know damn well you ran a whole~ lot in XI. There's quicker travel here in XIV earlier in the game then there was in XI.

People complain about the time efficiency of the Auction House against the Market Wards but they'd rather run with a chocobo then teleport with Anima? Hmm. And on top of that, some would rather shout for Teleports and Warps rather then do it themselves?! Cmon now.

Chocobos are a fun luxury same as Airships. They'll get you there in style, but not nearly as fast as Teleporting. Lets keep the Anima points and just add Chocobos and Airships.


Fame vs Faction

Really? You want to grind fame again? Pretty skeptical about that. Fame was a little interesting in the way they talk to you and this can be added to the game but I don't want important features/quests restricted on how much fame I have. No fame should be a perk that gives you fancy trivial things, not dictating if you can play the game and getting the things you need. So why don't we just add Fame to Faction. The more points you get from completely quests and Leves, the more points you get. Along the way when you earn a certain amount of points, NPCs will start calling you sir, lord, and god to help your ego.


Skill Chains vs Battle Regimen

Skill chains in XI imo were fun only for their special effects and killing the monsters quicker. That's it really. Because we were getting more experience and it was flashy, we were happy and enjoyed them. And out of the two, we really only cared about the extra exp because it took forever and a day plus a trillion cat naps to level in XI. So it was exciting to do skill chains because it meant seeing bigger exp gains and leveling faster and that seems kinda shallow to me.

The Battle Regimen concept on the other hand adds real strategy and excitement to XIV compared to Skill Chains in XI I think. We'll be using it for real battles (when the battle system is working more balanced and more content is added) to bring more effiency to the fight and increase our chances of completing missions rather then just to see our experience per hour increase.

Skill chains can also be put into place but instead of increased exp being the incentive, I think they should increase loot amount and/or quality. And if SE really wants to get fancy, perhaps performing skill chains will call forth an energy based on elemental WS combinations that buffs the party in a flashy way.


Adventuring Fellow vs Path Companion


These two can easily be combined into something even greater than what was in XI. Simply allow us to all on our path companion the same as adventuring fellow, WITHOUT the annoying cooldown. Path companions strength should match your current job level. Going through the leveling process for your adventuring fellow on top of leveling your own character in XI was an incredible time sink like few I've seen before.


Party Grinding vs Grouping for Leves

I can't think of anything less I want in an MMO than grinding, especially XI style grinding. I can't understand why people would rather stand around and pull to a single spot in the area rather than run around freely killing the monsters. I feel more like the conquerer of the area when I'm free to move around rather then scared to death to leave a spot. You didn't stand in one spot in ANY Final Fantasy console game (as far as I know) and wait for someone to go bring the monster to you. No, you ran around and fought monsters as you encountered them. I think people liked party camps, again, mostly because it allowed them to get experience very fast making the long leveling process faster.

First of all, Guild Leve contain a story within it rather than meaningless party grinding in XI. So right away, we're engaging in something more interesting, all we need now is SP gain closer to perfection and then people should be grouping for those rather than soloing them.

The SP system was flawed in many ways and still isn't perfect yet in XIV. It's getting better for groups and has the potential to be far more enjoyable in XIV compared to exp parties in XI.



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Some other points from XI people are looking for that should or shouldn't be implemented in XIV.

Level Sync

Not the most realistic feature when a stronger person is suddenly reduced to the strength of somebody 10,20, 30 levels below them. Level sync was added mostly so people could help other lower level players in a time when fewer and fewer people were leveling new jobs in XI. It's almost useless in XIV because we aren't dependent on parties for leveling in XIV. Now what if a higher level player want to play with his friend who just joined XIV? SE should find a more creative way for players to do this perhaps or maybe the higher level player should explore a new job that he hasn't leveled yet in XIV. Idk, but I don't think Level Sync is as useful now in XIV as it was in XI. At least not yet.

Mail system

I can't argue this really. I want a mail system too, but I'm managing without it by trading to people in person and through retainers to myself. Not a high priority I think.


2 Hour Abilities

Can we have these without the 2 hour BS? I think we can. How about saving enough TP to use a special ability that can only be used every 30 minutes max. Wouldn't want people using these too often or right at the start of the battle. Takes out the feeling of an adrenaline filled adventurer by doing it from the start and shouldn't be used too often otherwise the lack or rareness will take away from the special moment it creates.



There are many more things that again, are not specific to XI but simply parts of what makes Final Fantasy....Final Fantasy

And there are many more things that are being mentioned that are not specific to XI but simply part of what makes MMO better to have.


In the end, I don't want to see XIV repeat the same things XI did because I think it will probably repeat many of it's flaws. Instead, XIV needs to evolve to surpass the things that XI was. Many people say SE ignored XI, tried too hard to be different from XI. I say there are more similarities than most people realize and many differences that are better or can better in XIV.


For the moment I don't think I can think to type much more.

Please acknowledge the fact that I just spent a lot of time typing this all up and I will acknowledge your insightful (hopefully) replies.


Thank you for your attention

[Demacia]

So, don't change anything and let the game continue going down the wrong path it started on? No thanks.

XI brings some great features to the table, and it's already been made clear that ignoring them was not the right thing to do. Ignoring what other successful MMOs have done in general was not the right thing to do.

"I like it, so that makes it okay." is what I keep seeing from the people who want the game to continue trying to be a purely unique snowflake. It isn't gonna happen.

-Whether you like it or not, the market wards are tedious to use even with search functions. It should be UI based (an AH).
-I'd prefer to run around instead of teleporting everywhere from the get go if the world was worth exploring. Too bad it isn't.

So BCNMs. Here's a part of XI that was fun for it's time but makes no sense to me and should definitely not be part of XIV in the same way it was in XI. How artificial it felt to jump on a teleport and go to a single room full of monsters that seem to have no other purpose other than to stand there, facing the entrance, waiting for adventurers to come fight them.

Kinda like how guildleve monsters who are supposed to be causing some sort of ruckus according to the quest text simply stand around in the open waiting to be killed?

The Battle Regimen concept on the other hand adds real strategy and excitement to XIV compared to Skill Chains in XI I think. We'll be using it for real battles (when the battle system is working more balanced and more content is added) to bring more effiency to the fight and increase our chances of completing missions rather then just to see our experience per hour increase.

That's pure speculation because battle regimens are a cumbersome feature that do not support the current combat system. Skillchains/magic bursts required group coordination, were flashy, were fun to set up, were fun to perform, did not prevent you from using other skills, and were effective for stacking extra damage versus difficult monsters AND landing much needed enfeebles. You really think battle regimens are a step above that?

First of all, Guild Leve contain a story within it rather than meaningless party grinding in XI. So right away, we're engaging in something more interesting, all we need now is SP gain closer to perfection and then people should be grouping for those rather than soloing them.

You really call that a story? It's shameful that such an unimaginative system is the main source of content in the game. I'd honestly rather grind on crabs while socializing than play "hunt the imp" every 36 hours.

Mail system

I can't argue this really. I want a mail system too, but I'm managing without it by trading to people in person and through retainers to myself. Not a high priority I think.

You mean the basic feature in any MMO that should've been there from the beginning?

Can we have these without the 2 hour BS? I think we can. How about saving enough TP to use a special ability that can only be used every 30 minutes max. Wouldn't want people using these too often or right at the start of the battle.

Why not have both? You seriously have a problem with classes having a trump card simply because it's from FFXI and FFXIV has to be different in every single possible way?


Sorry dude, I respect your opinions but I will never be able to agree with them.

[Draven]

So, don't change anything and let the game continue going down the wrong path it started on? No thanks.

I didn't say don't change anything. I think I make a lot of points that what exists and doesn't work shouldn't just be thrown out to start all over again, instead should be fixed or adjusted to be more efficient the same way Market Wards have become more efficient since launch.

XI brings some great features to the table, and it's already been made clear that ignoring them was not the right thing to do. Ignoring what other successful MMOs have done in general was not the right thing to do.

It's been made clear by all those that love and worship XI that ignoring XI was the wrong thing to do. But I don't see how people can keep repeating this when the same character designs are starring them right in the face.

SE knew exactly what it did before and obviously wanted to do something different. Fail or success, I respect that.

"I like it, so that makes it okay." is what I keep seeing from the people who want the game to continue trying to be a purely unique snowflake. It isn't gonna happen.

Of course it can't be a completely unique game because nothing is unique or original. Everything is a combination of everything that has already existed before.

But really SE changing and doing something different should not be so shocking or disappointing to it's fans since they do it every single time they they make a new Final Fantasy game. SE company's history is made entirely by changes to what they did before.

Sometimes they build on the old system with small changes, sometimes they do something completely different. And every time there are people that get upset because it changed from the previous model. I for one loved XIIs battle system but XIII was very different and I couldn't help myself either from wishing it to be more similar but it wasn't. And that's just the way it is. The system changes, evolves and instead of opening up to these changes, players continually expect SE to keep making the same game. It isn't gonna happen.

Kinda like how guildleve monsters who are supposed to be causing some sort of ruckus according to the quest text simply stand around in the open waiting to be killed?

It's a step up from a single isolated room like BCNM. Besieged was cool though since the monsters came to the town.

That's pure speculation because battle regimens are a cumbersome feature that do not support the current combat system. Skillchains/magic bursts required group coordination, were flashy, were fun to set up, were fun to perform, did not prevent you from using other skills, and were effective for stacking extra damage versus difficult monsters AND landing much needed enfeebles. You really think battle regimens are a step above that?

No. Battle Regimens are completely broken, I agree. But having the same skill chain system is not going to evolve the game and give us a new challenge. We'll just have the same old predictable skill chain system.

Battle Regimens should be reworked extensively if they are supposed to replace skill chains from XI. But they shouldn't be completely scrapped.

It's shameful that such an unimaginative system is the main source of content in the game. I'd honestly rather grind on crabs while socializing than play "hunt the imp" every 36 hours.

Unimaginative is exactly what grinding in parties would be I think. If you don't take friends to socialize with you or find people to do Guild Leves with you, then that's your choice and not SE's fault.

You mean the basic feature in any MMO that should've been there from the beginning?

Not sure what your trying to get at here bro. Yeah, perhaps it should have been in place from the start but it wasn't. Why? Maybe they wanted more trading in person or perhaps it has something to do with RMT reduction. I really don't know.

You seriously have a problem with classes having a trump card simply because it's from FFXI and FFXIV has to be different in every single possible way?

I don't have a problem with 2hours just because they were in XI. I have a problem with them because they make no sense to me. Super special abilities should be available over the course of a fight, not just ready anytime the character pleases. Wasn't it called Limit Break? And weren't Limit Breaks in VII for example available after you fought for awhile? Not because it was 2 hours? That's what I'm saying.

Sorry dude, I respect your opinions but I will never be able to agree with them.

Fair enough. I'm not trying to convert everyone, just opening up my perspective of the game.

I didn't hate XI, and I sure as hell didn't love it. It's not just XI, but everything from my point of view should walk the very fine line between something familiar and something different. I think for the most part, XIV does that, but in a very clunky way.