MGP too much of a grind

[Welsper59]

Yeah, great, why should people like and play FF14 and just don't went on to another game, all because they are pranked with vanity item grind. Pretty sure Square loves the idea, that all the players who hate grinding just cancel their abo and go away. Why fix something like that. Even vanity is only for pro grinders! Eat this, you casual and normal gamer majority! We don't need you and your money! Right?

Nice quote, DarkDedede:
"Fun comes first. If it isn't fun, you're doing it wrong." -Naoki Yoshida

You know, you still have never replied once about why you're still paying for and playing something you clearly have a significant amount of negative opinions about lol. About why you're complaining about grinding in a genre of game that is all about the grind. Are you doing this just to complain/troll? You're not that bad of a troll if so. Note: I am very certain you will ignore the inquiry about why you're mindlessly here, and will instead focus on the "troll" mention *hint: that was bait to prove a point*, but most of us don't expect much to begin with from people that do what you (and some others) do.

Also, the "fun" quote is always taken out of context (like it is now). Fun is subjective... it is literally impossible to find something that 100% of the human population will find fun. Clearly, they're doing something right if they're happy about the number of people that do enjoy their game. So believe it or not, for the time being, if you're not having fun but they/we are... you're doing something wrong. That quote is literally about you.

Too many white knights blindly defending rubbish design choices. Stop ruining the gaming community by accepting sub-standard products and actually DEFENDING them! The quote from the guy/girl above me sums it up, "If it isn't fun, you're doing it wrong" - Yoshi. So where does beating the same NPC at TT 1000's of times come in to this fun? Or playing 1 of 3 races another few 1000 times? Was the fun hidden away somewhere in the Atma or lights grind, crafting leve grind or beastmen tribes grind etc etc? Forcing players to do the same piece of content over and over again for something as meaningless as a TT card is outrageous and lazy design work. As I've said, the GS should have been the welcome break from grinding in basically every other aspect of the game. Instead we get an even longer term grind thrown upon us to hide the severe lack of TT cards and pitiful amount of GS attractions/prizes in general. /endtruth

Too many mouth breathers pay for products (or subscriptions) they seem to dislike and will continue to do so, all while being part of a genre of game they don't even know they're partaking in and will resort to stating "it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it" nonsense. You are entitled to it, but it doesn't change the fact that opinions can be bad, misguided, and poorly thought out. /endtruth

[DarkDedede]

Too many mouth breathers pay for products (or subscriptions) they seem to dislike and will continue to do so ... /endtruth

Oh come on now. Criticisms are welcome, but resorting to insults (even when indirect) is just not necessary. I'd like to have more faith in you "lol."

You don't have to agree with an opinion, or even like that opinion. As you have stated before, no one on this forum "calls the shots." I see very little point wasting too much energy getting one's "pants in a twist" over a simple difference of opinions regarding preferred playstyles.

However, I think it would be wise to handle yourself with a bit more class. I know this is the internet, but let's leave the unnecessary antics elsewhere. It makes for a much better bedtime story.

[Welsper59]

Oh come on now. Criticisms are welcome, but resorting to insults (even when indirect) is just not necessary. I'd like to have more faith in you "lol."

You don't have to agree with an opinion, or even like that opinion. As you have stated before, no one on this forum "calls the shots." I see very little point wasting too much energy getting one's "pants in a twist" over a simple difference of opinions regarding preferred playstyles.

However, I think it would be wise to handle yourself with a bit more class. I know this is the internet, but let's leave the unnecessary antics elsewhere. It makes for a much better bedtime story.

It's true, but everyone has a bit of a trolly side to them. Whenever I see "white knight" being used, I know it's being used as an insult, so I love to goad those types lol. Only a certain class of people use "white knight" without being provoked in some way to say it. I mean, they do tend to spout comments about hating something they're continuously paying for... which logically, begs the question, why continue to pay for it? I guess you just can't win really lol (from all sides of the argument). Maybe I just have a better grasp of personal time and value than some others. /shrug

From a logical stance though, I still stand by my outlook on what to expect of these folks lol. But yes, there was no true need to make that known.

[RobinRethiel]

You know, you still have never replied once about why you're still paying for and playing something you clearly have a significant amount of negative opinions about lol. About why you're complaining about grinding in a genre of game that is all about the grind.

MMORPGS and especially FF14 is not about grinding per se. There are some grindy parts, they are indeed bad, but Square said, they want to change this. If they do not change it, of course, there is no need to stay in a game, which is the same as any other bad MMO, true. But until now, I (and many others) believe in Square's promises and are waiting for 3.0.

If they stay on this path for more and more dumb grind, yes, we will leave. Many will. Some already did.

[ServerCollaps]

you couldnt even name a "good" mmorpg without grinds...

Many will. Some already did.

so thats why the playerbase increased from 2.5m to 4m

[RobinRethiel]

you couldnt even name a "good" mmorpg without grinds...



so thats why the playerbase increased from 2.5m to 4m

Name a good MMORPG with grind. A grind like killing 10.000 monsters. And of course: it must be the main element and make you feel forced to do it. Not optional. - And forget to call the Gold Saucer optional. It's a very big new element in FF14 and designed to serve all players as fun park beside the normal stuff.

WoW? You don't have to grind there. You can, there are some things here and there, but they are very optional. If it would be a grindy game in the core, they would never had caught so many players.
Guild Wars? There are possibilities to grind, but again, you don't have to in the slightest. You don't need to grind to get good gear.
Star Wars? Didn't feel grindy, got others problems.
and so on...

By the way: Grinding is a main part of F2P games, because grinding is annoying and F2P games are supposed to have such annoying stuff inside, so people buy the packages. That may be the reason, why you think, that MMORPGs must be grindy. No. F2P MMORPGs must be grindy, else no one would buy those +X XP stuff and so on.



Playerbase does not work that way. Yes, actually it may rise, but for an MMO you must hold them the long term. If they would really have that much more ACTIVE players, there would be more servers. And you will never gain and hold a big player base with grinding. The grind is, what make people leave, all the other, good parts, FF14 got, they bring bigger numbers. The grind and rng may destroy this, if they are not careful, polluting all the good they got.

Did you just imply that Gold Saucer isn't optional?

Hahahaha!

Show's over folks, this thread has reached its climax.

The whole game is "optional", kid. Try to get real.

[MomomiMomi]

Name a good MMORPG with grind. A grind like killing 10.000 monsters. And of course: it must be the main element and make you feel forced to do it. Not optional. - And forget to call the Gold Saucer optional. It's a very big new element in FF14 and designed to serve all players as fun park beside the normal stuff.

Did you just imply that Gold Saucer isn't optional?

Hahahaha!

Show's over folks, this thread has reached its climax.

[Moqi]

The whole game is "optional", kid. Try to get real.

Yeah, it never made sense. I've always wondered what non-optional content in a video game is. I still live if I don't log in one day.

[Welsper59]

MMORPGS and especially FF14 is not about grinding per se. There are some grindy parts, they are indeed bad, but Square said, they want to change this. If they do not change it, of course, there is no need to stay in a game, which is the same as any other bad MMO, true. But until now, I (and many others) believe in Square's promises and are waiting for 3.0.

If they stay on this path for more and more dumb grind, yes, we will leave. Many will. Some already did.

When did they say they wanted to change the formula for MMORPGs, and thus, traditional RPGs in general? Maybe I missed that. I know they said they wanted to change their approach for certain mechanics that are all-or-nothing, like Titan, but I don't recall ever reading/hearing anything about the grind (except to ease up a little on specific content that involved that... note: that does not mean remove).

And the entire genre is about grinding (in some form or another). A repetitive process that involves bettering your character in one way or another. That's RPG at its core, don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise. I don't think anyone is arguing against the notion that too much grind is bad, but rather that you're fighting a battle that you won't win lol. You won't win it because you don't understand everything about what you're arguing against. It'd be like if I went to a CoD forum and argued that the idea of FPS games having to use guns or be in the eyes of the character to be old and lazy design. It'd be clear I don't understand what an FPS involves, particularly with the CoD series.

Also that implications that there are an overwhelming majority of players that don't understand what a traditional (see Final Fantasy style) RPG is. People leave MMOs for many reasons, please refrain from making it seem like that is not the case. If you ever choose to leave, so be it. You won't be missed, just like the rest of us won't be missed when it is our time to quit. Many leave, many join... that's a fact of the ways that consumers take part in the MMORPG market (assuming you have a hit, like this game is).

[RobinRethiel]

It'd be like if I went to a CoD forum and argued that the idea of FPS games having to use guns or be in the eyes of the character to be old and lazy design. It'd be clear I don't understand what an FPS involves, particularly with the CoD series.

You don't even get near the point. Bad design in an FPS would be for example a bad AI, which is compensated by godlike powers, for example, that enemies ALWAYS see you. Taking guns out of a shooter would be like taking the skills out of a MMORPG. Taking grinding out of an MMORPG would leave the MMORPG completely intact. There would still be the whole game with everything, you would just not have to grind to play it effectively.

Grind is a lazy design. You don't see it in FPS, since there is seldom something to gain on the long term, so no grind is possible. FPS got other problems. Bad AI, boring/bad level design, bad UI (more important in a FPS than a MMORPG, because it's faster gameplay) and so on.

But since Square said, they will raise the MGP, I don't care any longer for this "discussion". Gone.