Less Memorization - More Reaction? (Trials/Raids/Bosses)

[Bishop81]

Movement prediction exists to eliminate this issue, which this game already uses. You will always see your character in real time, the client simply predicts where your character will end up with your movement, only if you have massive lag or the system is poorly implemented will you ever see your character rubberband or move with a delay.

The prediction is used for other players on your screen. There is no reason to predict your movements since the information required to determine that is already at your client - from your keyboard.

If you have massive lag, you will notice that you can still run around (of course the server isn't getting the information), when the lag cease and the server catches up, it just takes the client's word as to where you are. Others will see you rubberband but your own rubberbanding isn't visible from your side - you will see others rubberband though.

[Sove92]

The prediction is used for other players on your screen. There is no reason to predict your movements since the information required to determine that is already at your client - from your keyboard.

If you have massive lag, you will notice that you can still run around (of course the server isn't getting the information), when the lag cease and the server catches up, it just takes the client's word as to where you are. Others will see you rubberband but your own rubberbanding isn't visible from your side - you will see others rubberband though.

And the server blindly trusting the client with no checks made at all is what allows poshacking. SE doesn't even need to make it strict, they only need to have a simple plausisiblity check there. Your client sends the position updates to server, you are already seeing yourself move, server checks if this movement makes sense, if yes, nothing extraordinary happens, if the answer is no (will only happen if you are lagging hard or poshacking), your position is changed by the server. The client never needs to wait for a server response to start moving your character.

"The prediction is used for other players on your screen.": For mobs too and SE is doing a bad job with it, try hitting a moving enemy with melee and you see what I mean.

[Bishop81]

And the server blindly trusting the client with no checks made at all is what allows poshacking. SE doesn't even need to make it strict, they only need to have a simple plausisiblity check there. Your client sends the position updates to server, you are already seeing yourself move, server checks if this movement makes sense, if yes, nothing extraordinary happens, if the answer is no (will only happen if you are lagging hard or poshacking), your position is changed by the server. The client never needs to wait for a server response to start moving your character.

"The prediction is used for other players on your screen.": For mobs too and SE is doing a bad job with it, try hitting a moving enemy with melee and you see what I mean.

I know, that's why I said, trusting the client is out of pragmatism. The alternative is input lag and some players feeling ill.

As for why they don't do plausibility checks, beats me. Maybe it's not as easy to determine what is and isn't "plausible" movement as we think. /shrug

PS: WoW doesn't check either.

[Kiara]

That's basically exactly what Thornmarch EX is. There's X number of attacks that come out, with some new ones being added after the first revive. The only rule to it is that it doesn't like to do the same one back to back.

I know a lot of players who don't want to go back to Thornmarch EX unless they have to.

To be fair, Thornmarch EX isn't a totally fair comparison to having a Single Coil Boss be less scripted. Moggle Mog has *8* Key Enemies that are roaming all over the place (7 Moogles and King Moggle Mog); it *is* an exercise in Chaos / Wackiness on purpose.

As Felis said, 1.0's Ifrit Extreme (much harder than If EX now) was a great example of Randomness within Structure:

Each Phase had a certain set of moves, but the moves were random in usage.

[Izsha]

The trouble is, randomness requires more from players. To have the same mechanics now, but random is a direct increase in difficulty. Period. That's what I mean when I say most of the playerbase will just struggle even more.

In order to maintain difficulty, you have to either nerf the power of the moves, or give more time to react to them.

Take titan for example. A great many players find its current scripted form very difficult. To randomize it's current form would make it even harder for those players. To randomize, you would need to either increase cast times on plumes etc so players have time to recognize the random element and then react, or nerf damage to allow more mistakes. The original goal of randomization is for players that know these fights to not get as bored. But for players like me that can already react fast enough to dodge plumes with no warning, the slower or weaker random version would just put me to sleep it would be so easy.

Tldr: in order to meet the goal if keeping vets more engaged, the mechanics would need to be nerfed and still end up weak and boring for vets. To not nerf or weaken but just add random is a direct increase to difficulty and weaker players will struggle even more. It's a no win. We can't have fights that are challenging and engaging for high performers but are still accessable to the masses. Just broadly applying randomness everywhere won't help meet the initial goal.

[Kiara]

On one hand - yes, please. I'm sick of being sent to watch guide videos while at the same time yelled at when I actually want to watch in-game CSs. Also sick of having lists of things to learn, just another thing next to the menial grinds, to make the game feel more like a job than fun.

On the other hand - I think of Titan Ex and that lag/latency horror makes me want flee as far away from anything reaction-based in this game as possible.

I think the Dev Team heard our complaints, especially after stuff like Titan EX and 2nd Coil.

I do think Turn 10+ show some promise of a *bit* of Randomness within a heavily Scripted fight (not enough IMHO). One key thing that should be kept in mind:

* If the Dev Team added more Random / Less Boring Scripted Fights, there needs to be FEWER Insta-Kill Moves. Or, make sure the Random never occurs on the Insta-Kill Moves.

These go hand-in-hand for balancing out the fight.

Of course having more Random in something like Titan EX (with being able to be Knocked Off / Instant Death), or in Turn 5, 9, with so many Raid Wipes because of 1 Mistake, would NOT be good.

There are ways to make Boss attacks "dangerous" without them 1 Shotting / Instant Killing:

* Massive HP Loss (but Not Death)
* Ability/Stat Debuffs (Loss of Attack Power, Defense, Healing Potency)
* Other Debuffs (Strong Poison, Slow, Heavy, Paralyze)
* Confusion / Charmed, Stun, etc.

And plenty of other ways.

So if the Dev Team designed Boss Attacks to be less "Instant Death! Entire Raid Wipes because of 1 Mistake" and more of other Penalties (like the above or other methods besides Death), then I think Less Scripted, More Random can work. And that's NOT a "nerf." The Dev Team currently using so many "Instant Death" moves is lazy Combat Design.

And again, you can always have *certain Moves* / Phases be Scripted (Shiva Diamond Dust always happens at X%), but other things can be more Random / Less Scripted.

Ultimately, as it is now, once you learn the "Dance" / Team Jump Rope / Pattern, you really are just playing Dance Dance Revolution w/ the Boss (memorizing the fight, rinse and repeat).

[DemonFury]

This game needs to shy away from pvp it was never meant for it and to this day its no where near being the lead content in the game.. that's just my opinion.
ON the other hand heres what we have not seen yet:
1. 25 man ls/fc party type raids where you can go in with your entire linkshell or free company rather than having to put up with trolling and other random nonsense from random players.
2. Need to get away from dungeons like coil and primals as pretty much teh only content.
3. Smn class almost all teh previous games once you fought the primals you aquired them as a summoning skill not pets .. this pet thing is in every game why make this one like every other game why not use them as they were used in the past ? as skills taht can be used against the bosses or trash mobs and or on your own party.

[thunderbreak]

They tried that with Stone Vigil HM. I don't think it worked out too good.

[LalaRu]

No one cares about world firsts. People simply don't like RNG and having it as a combat mechanic would turn people off because they can get wiped by something they can't prepare for, which in turn makes farming/grinding more of a chore than it already is.

That exactly is what happens when a new encounter comes out, and no one ever done it. I welcome that change, because the game will become more challenging.

But... people then will come to forum en masse whining about that. Remember Pharos Sirius, people..... Pharos Sirius....

[Jamein]

I think T10 gets a nice balance of RNG in the last phase. That's the kind of RNG I want.

Things like Titan ex/t9 are two of the most fun fights in the game for me, I love doing them both, but at the same time I just know them off heart and it takes a little of the fun out of it. I know exactly whats coming next and what to look out for its engraved into my head after all the runs. It's not the scripting that makes them fun, just the mechanics that they both have. I'm not saying make titan randomise everything and throw out 3 sets of bombs and 4 landslides in a row then mountain buster the tank a good 4 times. You can keep a mix of scripted and still throw in some RNG elements that don't oneshot the raid but still add a bit of spice.