Less Memorization - More Reaction? (Trials/Raids/Bosses)

[Catwho]

One of the most difficult fights in FFXI 75 cap was "scripted" - Proto-Ultima in Limbus. You knew that Dissipation, a nasty ability was coming every 20% and you'd better have a BLM or RDM/DRK on point to stun it. You knew when someone was getting targeted by Citadel Buster and that you had about 30 seconds to GTFO (only element of randomnness was who got targeted. If they were a tank, they MIGHT live.)

And yet groups still struggled to clear this fight. We had an easier time with Omega, who was a lot more random, but whose abilities were a bit less totally-wipey.

[Bishop81]

the net code is fine as it is..
as people like you still didnt recognize that its not the spell animation that hits (for example an explosion)... you get hit by aoe attacks right after the the ground mark disappears...

...

Doesn't matter. Player see themselves getting clear of the AoE marker on the ground ... then they eat 3k damage ...

This is not a player problem. This is a bad UI problem.

It's the castbar that matters, not the ground marker, if you are in the AoE when castbar finishes, you will get hit. Only a few abilities in the game work differently (Mortal Gaze in Wod being a good example of one, the animation matters for that one, not the castbar).

Maybe they should fix that, since we are running out of the AoE, we will be looking at the ground not the mob's UF!

[Dererk]

More reaction would be a lot more fun but I think the so called casuals will complain.

Here's a real example of reaction that happened yesterday I have video prof.
but no idea on uploading.

Cleared T11 yesterday boss was at 2% 2 dps down war down both healers down used Hallowed ground timed cool downs mecha hydra dead that's real reaction.

[Cynfael]

Reaction-based mechanics are usually friendlier to casuals since they tend to involve less instant death and/or allow more time to recover from mistakes. It's the common trade-off for the possibility that the RNG might be unusually cruel.

And Dererk, grats on your clear, but even that situation is an example of responding to scripted mechanics. What you did was choose the most appropriate response; the only difference being that you were forced to use certain cooldowns because your party members failed to handle their scripted elements and got killed :P

[Tyrn]

On one hand - yes, please. I'm sick of being sent to watch guide videos while at the same time yelled at when I actually want to watch in-game CSs. Also sick of having lists of things to learn, just another thing next to the menial grinds, to make the game feel more like a job than fun.

On the other hand - I think of Titan Ex and that lag/latency horror makes me want flee as far away from anything reaction-based in this game as possible.

Perhaps a mix of the two (with those reaction timings not set to the lowest pings) could be nice, idk.

You'd still be expected to look up guides and memorize how to react to each boss ability, don't be naive enough to think that people somehow would no longer mind the random guy that joined their ex primal/Alexander PF not using all tools available to him just because things are used in a random order.

[Catwho]

Players can reduce the UI problem in Titan by making a sharp turn after exiting the AOE ground area. This forces the client to tell the server that you are out of the AOE at the time of landing. That's how a friend of mine eventually beat Titan HM on PS3. He called it the "right angle trick." Get out of landslide, make a 90 degree turn and then run parallel to it for another second.

[AlexionSkylark]

In that sense, I can agree that Blizzard and WoW hits the nail squared - They may have loads of problems with their game, but the raid boss designs are top notch. From what I could study, they separate their bosses into categories:

DPS burns - Fights where the most important thing is to burn the boss ASAP while dealing with his mechanics (Ex. Razorscale, Elegon, Festergut). They normally act as gear checks too.
Survival battles - Battles where the main focus is to STAY ALIVE, even at the expense of DPS. Such fights are really aggressive on the players (Mimiron, Putricide, Sindragosa, The Lich King)
Gimmick Fights - Fights where there's a special gimmick to handle, exclusive to the fight, and mastering the gimmick is the main key to beating the boss (Ji-Kun, Flame Leviathan, Instructor Razuvious, Thaddius, Lei Shen)

The one constant between all those fights is that they have a mix of reaction and memorization, in what fights have a somewhat fixed rotation intertwined with random elements. On top of that, they have random elements that need memorization to be dealt with. Some times they even mix the battle types, with fights being BOTH a DPS race and a gimmick fight, like Elegon.

So, as everything in life, it's the mixture that makes the cookie grow in the oven =)

[Bishop81]

Players can reduce the UI problem in Titan by making a sharp turn after exiting the AOE ground area. This forces the client to tell the server that you are out of the AOE at the time of landing. That's how a friend of mine eventually beat Titan HM on PS3. He called it the "right angle trick." Get out of landslide, make a 90 degree turn and then run parallel to it for another second.

This is still a developer problem. Not the player's.

Maybe their servers should ask the clients where the players are before hitting them for all of their HP.

Just saying.

[Synestra]

It's the castbar that matters, not the ground marker, if you are in the AoE when castbar finishes, you will get hit. Only a few abilities in the game work differently (Mortal Gaze in Wod being a good example of one, the animation matters for that one, not the castbar).

This! Good examples are behemot meteor or curtain call, you can start running soon as castbar is finished and take no damage.

[Sove92]

This is still a developer problem. Not the player's.

Maybe their servers should ask the clients where the players are before hitting them for all of their HP.

Just saying.

Trusting the client is one of the worst design choices for a multiplayer game. And server already trusts the client too much when it comes to movement, the server makes no attempt to check if the movement done was possible.