Less Memorization - More Reaction? (Trials/Raids/Bosses)

[Garlyle]

They can do it like the Ifrit fight during 1.x, a mix of pattern and randomness

patter: Ifrit do specific attacks during the phases with specific time between the attacks
random: you don't know what attack come next

That's basically exactly what Thornmarch EX is. There's X number of attacks that come out, with some new ones being added after the first revive. The only rule to it is that it doesn't like to do the same one back to back.

I know a lot of players who don't want to go back to Thornmarch EX unless they have to.

I'm not of the opinion randomness is automatically a good thing, but it's not automatically bad, either.

[Kiara]

That's basically exactly what Thornmarch EX is. There's X number of attacks that come out, with some new ones being added after the first revive. The only rule to it is that it doesn't like to do the same one back to back.

I know a lot of players who don't want to go back to Thornmarch EX unless they have to.

To be fair, Thornmarch EX isn't a totally fair comparison to having a Single Coil Boss be less scripted. Moggle Mog has *8* Key Enemies that are roaming all over the place (7 Moogles and King Moggle Mog); it *is* an exercise in Chaos / Wackiness on purpose.

As Felis said, 1.0's Ifrit Extreme (much harder than If EX now) was a great example of Randomness within Structure:

Each Phase had a certain set of moves, but the moves were random in usage.

[silentwindfr]

They can do it like the Ifrit fight during 1.x, a mix of pattern and randomness

patter: Ifrit do specific attacks during the phases with specific time between the attacks
random: you don't know what attack come next

that how the fight must be, you can't take out all the script of the fight it's impossible.it will lead to some huge headache for balance it, but the fight must be more random... than what we have get soo far. it's not that hard to do it, but they simply are scared to frustrated player that refuse to move out of them comfort zone and it's sad to see this. because, like i have said before the thrill to beat this sort of boss is the best. even when it by sheer luck the first time, with each victory you grow in confidence and get better at do it. here if you get the dance right, you will have no probleme to redo it when you want.

the replayability of the content is bad because of this

[Synestra]

T10 and T11 are good examples where even minor randomness makes fight more fun even when it is on farm, i hope SE will keep adding fights similiar to those and maybe even add slightly more randomness in them. Nothing is more boring than having a pattern based fight on farm, it gets super dull after first few clears to the point i dont even want to do it anymore :s

[Sessurea]

T10 and T11 are good examples where even minor randomness makes fight more fun even when it is on farm, i hope SE will keep adding fights similiar to those and maybe even add slightly more randomness in them. Nothing is more boring than having a pattern based fight on farm, it gets super dull after first few clears to the point i dont even want to do it anymore :s

Agreed ^^ I look forward to the final phases of t10/11 a lot. "Do I need to soak or not?!" "Are tethers on tanks?!!" As brd I also enjoy how redfire has a total life of it's own too in 12, similar case with flare star in 13. I also really enjoy ramuh w/o TS or marked party members .

SE have proven that they can stress the player with just random elements of minor chaos within scripted fights. While I think most players enjoy these, I'm not sure I'd want more than I'm currently getting.

[BreathlessTao]

On one hand - yes, please. I'm sick of being sent to watch guide videos while at the same time yelled at when I actually want to watch in-game CSs. Also sick of having lists of things to learn, just another thing next to the menial grinds, to make the game feel more like a job than fun.

On the other hand - I think of Titan Ex and that lag/latency horror makes me want flee as far away from anything reaction-based in this game as possible.

Perhaps a mix of the two (with those reaction timings not set to the lowest pings) could be nice, idk.

[Tyrn]

On one hand - yes, please. I'm sick of being sent to watch guide videos while at the same time yelled at when I actually want to watch in-game CSs. Also sick of having lists of things to learn, just another thing next to the menial grinds, to make the game feel more like a job than fun.

On the other hand - I think of Titan Ex and that lag/latency horror makes me want flee as far away from anything reaction-based in this game as possible.

Perhaps a mix of the two (with those reaction timings not set to the lowest pings) could be nice, idk.

You'd still be expected to look up guides and memorize how to react to each boss ability, don't be naive enough to think that people somehow would no longer mind the random guy that joined their ex primal/Alexander PF not using all tools available to him just because things are used in a random order.

[Kiara]

On one hand - yes, please. I'm sick of being sent to watch guide videos while at the same time yelled at when I actually want to watch in-game CSs. Also sick of having lists of things to learn, just another thing next to the menial grinds, to make the game feel more like a job than fun.

On the other hand - I think of Titan Ex and that lag/latency horror makes me want flee as far away from anything reaction-based in this game as possible.

I think the Dev Team heard our complaints, especially after stuff like Titan EX and 2nd Coil.

I do think Turn 10+ show some promise of a *bit* of Randomness within a heavily Scripted fight (not enough IMHO). One key thing that should be kept in mind:

* If the Dev Team added more Random / Less Boring Scripted Fights, there needs to be FEWER Insta-Kill Moves. Or, make sure the Random never occurs on the Insta-Kill Moves.

These go hand-in-hand for balancing out the fight.

Of course having more Random in something like Titan EX (with being able to be Knocked Off / Instant Death), or in Turn 5, 9, with so many Raid Wipes because of 1 Mistake, would NOT be good.

There are ways to make Boss attacks "dangerous" without them 1 Shotting / Instant Killing:

* Massive HP Loss (but Not Death)
* Ability/Stat Debuffs (Loss of Attack Power, Defense, Healing Potency)
* Other Debuffs (Strong Poison, Slow, Heavy, Paralyze)
* Confusion / Charmed, Stun, etc.

And plenty of other ways.

So if the Dev Team designed Boss Attacks to be less "Instant Death! Entire Raid Wipes because of 1 Mistake" and more of other Penalties (like the above or other methods besides Death), then I think Less Scripted, More Random can work. And that's NOT a "nerf." The Dev Team currently using so many "Instant Death" moves is lazy Combat Design.

And again, you can always have *certain Moves* / Phases be Scripted (Shiva Diamond Dust always happens at X%), but other things can be more Random / Less Scripted.

Ultimately, as it is now, once you learn the "Dance" / Team Jump Rope / Pattern, you really are just playing Dance Dance Revolution w/ the Boss (memorizing the fight, rinse and repeat).

[SpookyGhost]

Random fights would be too hard.

This game is for babies.

Everything is memorization because it's the easiest way to allow everyone to get through everything in the game at one point, either early on or brute forcing with gear.

People complain about Savage 7 more than any other savage turn and that has the least RNG.

We're never getting RNG heavy fights at end game. They're all going to be DDR. The sooner you accept this the sooner you can either move on to a different game, or enjoy what XIV has.

[SarcasmMisser]

I just woke from a nap and what crazy upside down world did I wake up to where the vast majority of players find the game as is too easy?

This just sounds like an awfully stubborn way of reconciling an inability to do fights; "this game is boring" is the typical reaction when someone loses Park Road and Mayfair in a game of monopoly and decides to leave. There cannot be a more transparent, cliche way to dismiss the difficulty of a fight. Not to mention that the mechanics that do exist with "randomness" people mess up the most, makes for the most unconvincing criticism of the encounter design.

like said countless time, no one ask for a full random fight, but more for a mix, even if i think it need to be about 60% random and 40% scripted. and more important, why the fight are soo unforgiving actually, it's because it's scripted, if you are able to ignore the script because it's not dangerous enough the fight will loook way to easier. (like how look recently garuda hm) they are forced to make the skill of the monster unforgiving for not follow the script. if they are more random, the monster will be more forgiving, but at the same time more dangerous, since you will not die directly, but little by little the group will be exhausted and destroyed by the monster. if people take too much damage that must be healed, the healer will need to heal less the tank and use more mana, messing them rythm.

I think we have the essence of the whole thing right here. They're dogwhistling for an easier game, yeah let's make everything random but not wipe people over failed execution because uh.