It's time to reevaluate the idea of adding a PLEX/Chronoscroll-like system to FFXIV

[Lamentations]

[QUOTE=AlexionSkylark;2814592]OMG, you really believe there is so many people out there willing to shell out 100s of dollars just to become a game's real state speculator?

You haven't played many games, or weren't paying attention when you did. yea they will.

One of the worst decisions ive made was deciding to buy a $300.00 lifetime sub to STO before it went F2P, that doesn't today make me feel obligated to play it now and then but hey im a trekkie.

Right after they switched to F2P they introduced special exclusive ship models into lockboxes that were opened with keys one bought from the cash shop which can "also" be sold on the market.

Some people didn't spend 100s of $ on these keys they spent "1000s", it left a very bad taste in peoples mouths, and all of this revenue, didn't do shit for content for a looong time.

The devs for that game swore they would never do anything that could be called P2W in that game, they lied.

Again, Yea they will pony up the cash.

My 31 yr old son, who is our FC leader also plays STO on F2P basis only, if they ever did this here, he would quit instantly.

Not to worry however, I don't see SE ever doing this screwy idea.

[Lamentations]

I think it'd be a great addition to the game. Would definitely help combat RMT.

No it will not help combat RMT, they will find a way around it, or expoit it.

The only two games I have played where RMT are well controlled are pure PVP games such as World of Tanks and World of Warplanes, if an RMT pops an add on a battlemap instance in those games he'll get one shot at it before tank or aircraft cannons rip him apart.

And it will be his "own team" who do so.

Wargaming not only doesn't punish players for doing so, but I have "personally" seen their "own development" team ingame "help" kill these RMT's.

This game isn't pure PVP, it would not control them here and just give them more business opportunities.

[Ceodore]

This is getting WAYYY out of hand now. First, people that claim that SE is thinking of going to a PLEX system, really need to show or link their evidence for this. Otherwise, it's just a matter of he said she said. If you claim something, then the burden of proof for the claim falls on your shoulders, a simple fact that when you fail to understand, you're now in the same group as the conspiracy theorists and religious idiots who claim to "know" without proof. As for me, I'm not mindless enough to support anything without proof, and further, proof exists abundantly for the argument against any system where a cash shop item is able to be sold for in game currency. I believe the best way is to take a system from a game where the system itself cuts out the middle ground by allowing players to convert cash shop currency directly to in game currency based on a conversion rate regulated by the game's very own market. Guild Wars 2's system worked on a system that allowed players to buy cash shop currency with real money and convert it to in game money, or buy the same currency with in game money. Converting cash shop currency to in game currency would yield a lower amount compared to how much it cost to buy cash shop currency with in game currency. This system was put in place in a hope to stop RMT (which it didn't) and also lower inflation (Which evidence posted below will also show it failed to do). In fact, as you can see, over the course of the game's existence, the conversion rate for Gems to gold is now 50 times what it was at the launch, and the cost to buy gems from gold is now 55 times what it was at launch. This is the simplest form of real money to in game money transaction that can be referenced. It shows a distinct link between a game's economy and the inflation caused by such a system from its implementation to the present. These prices, by the way, are based off the conversion of 100 cash shop currency to gold, and the price of 100 cash shop currency using in game gold. The price of the cash shop currency in real world money is still the same.

The rate of exchange for Guild Wars 2 can be found here http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem where in game data values are being followed and recorded

One more thing to consider is that Guild Wars 2 is a one time pay model. Meaning, you do not buy game time, you buy the game once, and you are able to play continuously. The reason I mention this is that the items sold in their cash shop are of no real necessity. Some do give slight advantages to game play, but none so much that they effect someone's ability to succeed in the game. Now, I bring up this fact because the request for a PLEX system means one thing very important, this item can be a make or break item, as instead of just small advantages that effect more of your quality of life in the game rather than the game itself. When you begin to sell any items that actually effect a game drastically (i.e. play time) then you have just turned demand for the item from want to necessity. This problem can best be illustrated by health care. The demand for health care is infinite, since every person wants to live. Turning something that is a necessity to live into a for profit business means that you can set any price you want, and so greed corrupts the very system until only the wealthy can afford to live. The same can be seen in this system. The demand for a time scroll to play will be never ending, thus the price for them can be set to whatever someone wants it to be. Of course, competition in the market will keep a weak check on prices, however, it simply won't matter as there will never be enough supply to meet this demand. So now, as a counter, the consumer who is farming and selling goods to afford their time scrolls will raise the prices on the goods they sell to make the profit they need. The goods they sell go up in price, and any items effected by such raises in prices will also go up in price, including crafted gear.

So now, imagine you're a new player to the game, no crafts, no gatherers, only a little two leaf next to your head and enough cash to afford the subscription every month/3 months/6 months. You enter a game where you could never afford to buy the armor for you level, so instead, you're relegated to farming armor from other sources (quests, leves, dungeons) but now, you want to start crafting to make the gil to afford some armor, or maybe to afford a time scoll so that you can save money and sell your own time scroll and get in on the action. That's not going to happen unless you gather items, because you simply can't afford any of the mats on the market. So you now you are forced to raise a gathering class too in order to furnish the items to craft, so that you can afford to craft items to sell or use. What was once a game where you could choose to just fight mobs and battle has now turned into Farmville for the greedy. The only light in all of this is the fact that there are things that don't require gil to buy, however, those things are at level 50 or completely useless anyways (i.e. GC gear), so now, as a new player, you have only two choices, grind your way to level 50, in crappy patch work gear since you can't afford market board prices, or grind gatherers and crafters to make your gear yourself, which takes quite a bit of time as well. Then, there's the third choice... quit and go do something else more productive, like play Farmville or something.

So again, to recap what I have said before, ruin a game's economy, then say goodbye to seeing new players. When you say goodbye to new players, then all you are left with are veterans, who whittle away one by one.

Also, to put a cap on the whole "WoW is doing it" thing. WoW is NOT doing the same thing as what is being discussed here. WoW is selling time scolls, yes. WoW is allowing players to put time scrolls up for sale on their markets, yes. However, WoW is NOT allowing players to set their prices for said Time Scrolls. The price you can sell said time scoll in WoW is set, and can not be changed by the players. Such control allows them to not just control, but eliminate the inflation that might have ensued. So STOP saying "WoW is doing it" because they aren't doing the same thing, they are doing something that's actually smart, allowing stupid players to be stupid and buy time scrolls with their own real money to make a quick, but limited in game buck. So their system IS different, and more like buying a time scoll and then vendoring it instead of exploiting other players and a free market for an item with limitless demand.

[Laerad3993]

Oh, right! Will do Mr./Ms. Anonymous person on a message forum!

Seriously?

"Well.. I have support tickets! Wont' tell you what they're for, what they entail, or any of the specifics... But sure, you just believe an official statement from a company rep, whom can be held accountable for what they say... over the vague claims of someone like me... an anonymous person on the forums who can claim anything and you have no way to prove otherwise!".

Yeah.. okay.

You people are hilarious.

Calm yourself buddy. Take a break, it's just a game. No need to foam at the mouth. Lol

Here, I am going to start hunting all my support and GM tickets down, I'll even throw in one where the GM flat out says these things are outside their scope of things, whatever the hell that means. I'd like to say just for the hell of it, my buddy has poured over $400 USD into the Eternal Bonds since they launched, and still sells them to this day. It isn't against the TOS kiddos, get over it.

http://i.imgur.com/w3mEk9J.png Note here how they don't say to stop.

http://i.imgur.com/UTtK4z1.png Keep reporting people for it and wasting your time, they can't do anything about it. I wonder why that is? They direct you to leave feedback or contact support. See the first image again. Lol. Is that seriously not clear enough for you? Too nuanced, maybe?

I'll post more as I find them, I have a lot of things to sift through. They all pretty much say the same things. GM's saying we can't talk about it, contact support or leave feedback, and then support saying it isn't against their policy/tos/etc. They aren't going to give up all that money, get real.

[Ceodore]

Calm yourself buddy. Take a break, it's just a game. No need to foam at the mouth. Lol

He's just pointing out that your so far claim is completely based on your word, which has about the same weight in this debate as urine. Next time, lead with the evidence. Also, as there is no reference material in the first one as to what the call was about, the authenticity of it relating to this topic is non-existent. In the second, I am unaware of medium being used for this response, but that ignored, as there is no time, date, or names to associate with it, including no GM name, its authenticity is in question as well. Please, try again with more solid evidence.

[Laerad3993]

He's just pointing out that your claim is completely based on your word, which has about the same weight in this debate as urine.

I posted my proof. Where's all of yours? I want to see your GM/Support tickets that say it IS against the TOS. Quickly now, before I post another few photos.

I SAID I was NOT at my PC.

[Ceodore]

I posted my proof. Where's all of yours? I want to see your GM/Support tickets that say it IS against the TOS. Quickly now, before I post another few photos.

I SAID I was NOT at my PC.

I never said it was against TOS in the first place, however, your claim that it isn't when put up against a claim that it isn't yet, but might be made against TOS by someone else who references a mod clearly with name and post, means your evidence in comparison is lacking in strength.

[Laerad3993]

I never said it was against TOS in the first place, however, your claim that it isn't when put up against a claim that it isn't yet, but might be made against TOS by someone else who references a mod clearly with name and post, means your evidence in comparison is lacking in strength.

You keep spinning that however you please. I reported my friend all throughout January and February. Bayohne's post is from December, what, 11th? 10th? He also never said ISN'T YET. He said it ISN'T AGAINST THE TOS. Nowhere after TOS was the word "yet" used. I keep being told it isn't against their Policy or TOS, and I posted proof of that. The person I reported is my friend doing it. I am sure I would know if it were a bannable offense, because he'd have been long gone by now with the amount he's sold.

[Ceodore]

You keep spinning that however you please. I reported my friend all throughout January and February. Bayohne's post is from December, what, 11th? 10th? He also never said ISN'T YET. He said it ISN'T AGAINST THE TOS. Nowhere after TOS was the word "yet" used. I keep being told it isn't against their Policy or TOS, and I posted proof of that. The person I reported is my friend doing it. I am sure I would know if it were a bannable offense, because he'd have been long gone by now with the amount he's sold.

I was referring to the dev post, which Prey clearly referred to as their proof, where a dev also said it isn't against the TOS, however, they don't want the items to be used in this way, and should it continue, they may just recall the item, change it, so that such actions can't happen period. I'd consider that being either a yet or a notice that if it doesn't stop, they will fix it so that it does. Either way, it's obvious that they don't want it to keep happening. Not that it matters frankly, as the item is "extra" and this whole conversation was originally about PLEX or items of importance, like time scrolls. Further, again, the authenticity of your evidence is lacking, as verifying it at all is impossible. So saying that they might make the trade of cash shop items for gil against TOS isn't proved wrong. Though, I doubt they would do that, and instead, I believe they will just learn from the experience of this and make future items unable to be traded or sold at all.

[Laerad3993]

---

Lolno. What Prey clearly did was highlight what he/she/it wanted, and used that as a basis for their argument. Bayohne said it isn't against the TOS as of December, Prey didn't highlight that. I have support telling me the same thing as of February. The only difference now is that I was not told people should quit doing it. You people are all gullible if you really believe what people post and say for the public to see, as if there is no such thing as an agenda or quota to fill behind closed doors.

Edit: My point should actually be, that don't for a second believe your needs and wants outweigh the financial needs and wants of a company/corporation. Last I checked, there were 3 people at the helm of SE, and Naoki Yoshida isn't one of them. Don't for a second think that SE/Sony/Stock/Shareholders will give up all that is to be made out there, for the sake of a few hundred people tops whining that it ruins their experience in this game.