It's time to reevaluate the idea of adding a PLEX/Chronoscroll-like system to FFXIV

[Pandastirfry]

Scenario: You have a fully functional 2013 Toyota Camry. You are given the option to trade it in for a 2016 Ferrari. What do you do?

I say, if it ain't broke, make it even better.

Well to stretch that anology.

You have a Camry, the insurance is affordable, you are given the option to get a 2016 Ferrari, your insurance goes through the roof and uour're forced to sell that Ferrari and buy a beater as a direct result.

What people are saying is the market inflation is the same as your car insurance I your analogy. While the car might be astheically better the financial fallout is not worth it.


In short, I'd keep the Camry because I can actually afford it in the long run.

[QiLymePye]

Actually, Pacer, there is precedent. We are living in a different era now. When FFXI was released i think it was 15 yrs ago, MMO were known mainly to hardcore game players. I would wager that most of the people playing now wouldn't even touch FFXI. Its the generation we are in now. Instant gratification. And no matter how much we want things to stay the same, these "new consumers" are what companies are targeting. Just look at videogames in general from 15 yrs ago to now. I used to play game that were merciless, like ninja gaiden. Tell me some of you remember how hard that game was. Im not saying that anybody is right or wrong. Im saying that making videogames is a big business, bigger than it was even 15 yrs ago. And in order to stay in business, you have to attract clients/consumers.You have to realize that there is a larger percentage of casual gamers now than there was 15 yrs ago. And with the advent of new technology and instant success from instant gratification games added with the economy and the amount of time spent working/income generated, more people play games casually than ever before. So it makes sense that gaming companies want to cater to casuals as well because they want their business.

Now since we have established that this isn't the good old days of gaming anymore, you have to realize that its still a business. Yes it would be nice to tell people to go play other games if they don't have the time. But telling those same people that is no different than telling people that can't afford to pay sub to stop playing, or if you don't want to play the game and only want to craft stuff and collect vanity then play something else. But in a business sense, saying those things and alienating people will cost SE more money than they can afford. Its just the way gaming has evolved over the years. Its one of the reasons I believe we don't have as many jrpg's over here in the states on these next gen systems. Lots of new players don't wanna solve puzzles, don't wanna out-think their opponent, don't wanna grind for hours, days, and weeks. They want it now and they want it all. Just look at how games are made now vs. 15-20yrs ago. Not just graphics. Look at gameplay, look at story, look at mechanics. I remember playing Resident Evil on PSOne when it first came out. I didn't have memory card, didn't have strategy guides, didn't have gamefaqs.com and such. I had to learn and memorize the game and figure out its puzzles. Took me almost a year to beat that game. Now...take RE6....I beat that game in less than a week with all characters.

What I'm trying to get at is that game companies are definitely making games to cater more towards casual players (remember, Casual means time put into game, not difficulty) more because if a game takes too long to complete because u have to put too much time into it, the casual gamer is going to go to something else. Especially if that casual gamer is also looking for instant gratification in as little time as possible. That's why I keep hearing people say this game is a theme-park mmo, something for everyone. More money for SE, more updates, more patches, for us. Don't push away, belittle, or blast players that can't put as much time in the game as you, because those same players are paying the same amount for the sub as you, but are getting less.

[Intaki]

What people are saying is the market inflation

This has been addressed repeatedly: the PLEX style system is incapable of creating inflation. The bots controlled by gil sellers who stand to suffer most from this system? THOSE create inflation.

[Ceodore]

This has been addressed repeatedly: the PLEX style system is incapable of creating inflation. The bots controlled by gil sellers who stand to suffer most from this system? THOSE create inflation.

Wrong again. PLEX system is implemented. So Player 1 buys a scroll and puts it up for a price. Player 2, in order to not have to pay money to play, farms and farms gil which he might not have farmed otherwise to purchase. Suddenly, more gil is being sunk into the economy for only the purpose to buy game time, gil that might not have been farmed otherwise. Gil that can also come from selling massive amounts of useless junk to vendors. Further, this system can be abused by those bots that hack accounts or obtain credit card information. Currently, all that they can do is hack and account and steal more gil or items and sell it, which is against TOS. Now, if they hack an account and steal payment information, they will just buy tons of time scolls and sell them instead. Well thought out. Currently, these gil sellers are not actually causing inflation. There is no way for them to actually do this, as there is no fountain of gil right now that they can just pull from. It's either hack accounts and steal items, which were already part of the game's economy to begin with. Steal the gil which was already also part of the economy to begin with. Or farm items and sell them for gil, which is also already part of the economy anyways. How do you really think they are getting this gil? Generating it with code? Lol. They are not selling any gil that was not already part of the economy to begin with. They are just stealing it from other players and then throwing it back in, which makes it against TOS. The most hilarious part of all of this? You honestly have no idea what you are talking about or how this actually works!

[QiLymePye]

Fyce....let me ask you this. Are you saying that its ok to have inequality in players in the amount of time each player can put into the game but its not ok to have inequality in the amount of money person has? So if you have more RL time to play game than someone else, its ok, but if you have more RL money than someone else then that inequality is frowned upon? What is with you people? Once again, its not P2W because the person that has more RL time to play the game has access to same stuff the person with more RL money has. Its ok to get stuff quickly in this game if you have the time to put in but you better not use RL money or you have an advantage that others wont have, even if others already have the advantage of having more time than you to put into game. Which one is an ok advantage to have?


I could care less if Person A wants to spend 20, 30, or 40 RL dollars to buy a clear in T13 or get married instead of spending months playing game to generate resources to do the same thing. It doesn't hurt me. PvE is not a competition, PvP is. Now notice you don't see PvP equipment being sold on MB or by NPC's for gil. P2W this game is not. The only people that can make this game P2W is SE, and they would have to change how you get gear and the relevance of said gear to "progress" through the game.

Basically what I get from the system people are talking about is for subs to be bought with in game gil (mostly made by people who have the time to do so, etc.) from people that have more RL money to get gil they might not have time to make, but said gil can't buy them best gear. Maybe a house...maybe....but buying a house isn't "progression" because you don't need it to "progress" through game, its just vanity.

[TouchandFeel]

As someone that goes to work in order to make money to pay for things like the subscription to this game, someone being able to sit at home all day playing the game and acquiring gil then being able to essentially play the game for free because they play the game a lot does not seem fair to me.

I'm sorry but I cannot support this idea.

[Ceodore]

-snip-

The point they are getting at is now you are putting a monetary value to their time spent playing, and different people have different opinions of what their time is worth. You obviously think your time is worthless since you wouldn't care at all what price someone has to pay for the same progress. However, also assume you are on the other side of the fence. You don't have time to run the raids and do the things, so you buy it all. Does that make you a good player? No, it doesn't. Does that mean you are going to attract a lot of friends who don't just want you to spend your money on buying them things? Maybe. So, progress and success of a player can now be rated more on what the player has accomplished as opposed to how much money they can spend. If player 1 can get by in real life working a casual job and spend hours on end playing the game, but player 2 who has to work 2 jobs to just support themselves and can't find time enough to play the game, maybe they shouldn't be wasting their money on a video game anyways. This isn't a necessary thing, it's an entertainment industry, meaning the people who should be playing, that are going to generate the revenue and money for the company the most, are the ones that make enough to actually play this way. Free to plays are also out there that have cash shops which give an advantage to players who can spend the money. This system still caters most to players that can afford to play video games, as even the player who makes a lot of money but has little time to play, will still not be able to enjoy the items as often or to the extent as someone who can also afford to sink money into said game and also has plenty of time to enjoy the items. The ideal player isn't the one who has just time or just money, it's one that has both. If a cash shop was introduced that gave an advantage for spending more money, then the players who can actually afford to play the game and can spend a lot of time playing it would take over (players like myself). These players can make a nice living while also spending hours and hours playing. However, very few people are so privileged. Even so, because I don't want to see this game decline, I don't want to see this happen. A subscription model is the perfect middle ground, it keeps people who simply can't afford to play more focused on doing more important things, like staying afloat in the real world, and allows players who can afford to play, the freedom to pay to the company a consistent revenue that the company can count on. Revenue they can sink back into new content. Players who can barely afford to play, or players that make a lot of money but don't have the time to play, really should just re-evaluate whether playing an videogame is really so important.

As someone that goes to work in order to make money to pay for things like the subscription to this game, someone being able to sit at home all day playing the game and acquiring gil then being able to essentially play the game for free because they play the game a lot does not seem fair to me.

I'm sorry but I cannot support this idea.

Not a terrible reason, but not the best reasoning. All a matter of perspective. What about the players that go to work to make a living and can still farm the gil to essentially play for free? They come out ahead even more. I'm on your side, but I am also one of those players that could do that. Still, I don't want to see it happen, because I know the consequences beyond this fact can be devastating.

[QiLymePye]

Ceo...what are you talking about? Your whole argument not only contradicts itself, it backs up my argument. What you are saying is that its ok that certain people have more time to play than others and that if you don't have the time to play, then boo hoo. But if said person has more money than you to enjy the game, than its not fair? really. And that said person should "re-evaluate" whether videogames are important? How about if you don't have as much RL money to put into the game than someone else, then maybe that person should "re-evaluate" if having more money is important to them? See what i did? It goes Both ways. now heres the problem....everyone pays the same sub price but thee are people that get more out of their sub than others because of the time they can spend.

Its like saying hey, you have netflix and i have netflix, but you have more time to watch the movies with your sub than I do, so you don't want me to pay someone a little money to borrow their sub because its not fair to you. If said person buys gil by selling a sub, how is that hurting you? Please explain. Stop saying they buy gear that most people already have. Stop saying they will buy up all of the houses, which are already bought up by the people that had time to make the money to buy houses, stop saying they buy a run in coil, which doesn't effect you at all. Why would this sytem hurt you besides that you can't say you worked harder than someone else in game time? Is it your ego you are worried about?

Stop saying inflation. Gil isn't being created with the push of a button. At best, it would be transferred. How many of you are sitting on millions of gil? not 3 or 4 mil, but like 20, 30, 50 mil. What are you hoarding it for if you don't need a house? Its the same as whats going on in the RL economy. We have 1 to 2 percent of the people holding +90% of the money. You wanna stimulate the economy? You guys need to put the money back into the economy. You wanna know how that can happen? If you guys that have nothing to spend gil on alll of a sudden have something to spend gil on....like a sub. Make you "hard" work pay off even more by earning free subs. WTF is wrong with that?

[Ceodore]

Ceo...what are you talking about? Your whole argument not only contradicts itself, it backs up my argument. What you are saying is that its ok that certain people have more time to play than others and that if you don't have the time to play, then boo hoo. But if said person has more money than you to enjy the game, than its not fair? really. And that said person should "re-evaluate" whether videogames are important? How about if you don't have as much RL money to put into the game than someone else, then maybe that person should "re-evaluate" if having more money is important to them? See what i did? It goes Both ways. now heres the problem....everyone pays the same sub price but thee are people that get more out of their sub than others because of the time they can spend.

Its like saying hey, you have netflix and i have netflix, but you have more time to watch the movies with your sub than I do, so you don't want me to pay someone a little money to borrow their sub because its not fair to you. If said person buys gil by selling a sub, how is that hurting you? Please explain. Stop saying they buy gear that most people already have. Stop saying they will buy up all of the houses, which are already bought up by the people that had time to make the money to buy houses, stop saying they buy a run in coil, which doesn't effect you at all. Why would this sytem hurt you besides that you can't say you worked harder than someone else in game time? Is it your ego you are worried about?

Stop saying inflation. Gil isn't being created with the push of a button. At best, it would be transferred. How many of you are sitting on millions of gil? not 3 or 4 mil, but like 20, 30, 50 mil. What are you hoarding it for if you don't need a house? Its the same as whats going on in the RL economy. We have 1 to 2 percent of the people holding +90% of the money. You wanna stimulate the economy? You guys need to put the money back into the economy. You wanna know how that can happen? If you guys that have nothing to spend gil on alll of a sudden have something to spend gil on....like a sub. Make you "hard" work pay off even more by earning free subs. WTF is wrong with that?

Not that it isn't fair, because what's fair and right doesn't matter. It's more about what they really should be doing instead, from a financial perspective. If they want to spend their money on an in game cash shop item, or spend their money on buying items to sell for gil, that's their prerogative. What I was pointing out is that the people who benefit the most are those with both time and money, which would benefit players like myself who can play and work at the same time. But, that's not what I want to get at. There are real in game effects to this system that can be catastrophic. It WILL drive up market prices. It WILL put the gil in the hands of the people who have the most money as well as the most time. It WILL make new players to the game have to spend real money to make easier progress through the game, but also have to spend more real money, since the ones already at the top won't be required to do the same to make progress. When you make it harder on the new players, you lose in coming subscriptions. When you lose those incoming players, price wars among the players at the top begins, and your player base dwindles.

I'd like to also point out something else about WoW's time scroll system that is being implemented. First, you buy the scroll, then you have the choice to either use it for yourself, or sell it. The market board on their game is going to give you a set price that you can sell it for which can not be changed by the player. THIS does not cause inflation, as it's essentially as if you are vendoring the item instead. You don't get a choice in the price, the game sets it. (This information has also been confirmed with my partner, a veteran WoW player himself of over 8 years and current player)

[Duuude007]

Stop saying inflation. Gil isn't being created with the push of a button.

Printing money is only one form of inflation.

They have every right to call it inflation, when the costs dramatically rise while demand remains stable, you still see the value of each gil decrease.