It's time to reevaluate the idea of adding a PLEX/Chronoscroll-like system to FFXIV

[Interstella]

By replacing monthly subscription with tokens that can be purchased with in-game currency, you are in effect reducing RMT costs, which they can then use to buy new game versions to bot with.

More bots = more in-game currency = reduction in real-money price = more people buying illegally generated in-game currency = more money for RMT = more game version being bought = more bots...

SE charges: 130,000gil = 1 token = 1 month of subscription
But due to the above scenario, RMT can charge: $10 = 130,000gil = 1 token = 1 month subscription (Nice, legacy prices!)

And SE will see none of this money...
= less money for game development
= more items in the cash shop to try and generate real-world money (because let's face it, it makes the world go round)

With this system, you are in effect putting SE in direct competition with RMTs, who do you think is going to come out on top here?!

Also, pay-to-win: isn't just buying gear, it's buying a spot on a raid team that will clear content for you.


Le edit...

In contrast to what you think, this system isn't putting SE in competition with RMT, it's putting players in competition with RMT.

Anyone can buy a token, players who buy tokens are indirectly selling gil if you think about it ... More competition = cheaper goods (gil is the good in this case). Throw in the existence of a legal route, players will feel safer taking the legal route, token selling will have a competitive advantage v.s. buying from a shady spammer.

The end result is that it screws over RMT because they no longer have a monopoly on RL money to gil conversion.

Thank you, I think I see how this works now.

So, $13 is 1 token from SE which can be sold on the MB for price dictated by the player, say 130,000gil
- It's secure
- Not against TOS

But for those who don't want to pay real-world money for a subscription, or those who can't, wouldn't they have to take up a currency generating style of play (130,000gil is really little, it'll probably more expensive I think)

So for example, say $13 will get me 130,000gil
But what if an RMT says $10 = 200,000gil?

Wouldn't I be getting more gil for less real-world money?

So some people might buy $20 worth of gil from an RMT = 2 months game time and a little extra, I can spend on a house, so no money goes back into the economy or I spend it on items on the MB I wouldn't have purchased otherwise
- so circulating more money into the economy causing inflation (am I right?)

Wouldn't that be detrimental to other players?

What if the RMT bought tokens off the MB and resold them for higher prices?
- Wouldn't those who rely on the tokens for game time either leave the game or be forced into a currency generating style of play?
- Wouldn't this encourage botting by actual players to keep up with RMT?

[Violyre]

By replacing monthly subscription with tokens that can be purchased with in-game currency, you are in effect reducing RMT costs, which they can then use to buy new game versions to bot with.

More bots = more in-game currency = reduction in real-money price = more people buying illegally generated in-game currency = more money for RMT = more game version being bought = more bots...

SE charges: 130,000gil = 1 token = 1 month of subscription
But due to the above scenario, RMT can charge: $10 = 130,000gil = 1 token = 1 month subscription (Nice, legacy prices!)

And SE will see none of this money...
= less money for game development
= more items in the cash shop to try and generate real-world money (because let's face it, it makes the world go round)

With this system, you are in effect putting SE in direct competition with RMTs, who do you think is going to come out on top here?!



Also, pay-to-win: isn't just buying gear, it's buying a spot on a raid team that will clear content for you.

Except it's not like how you described at all. Players would buy the monthly sub tokens with actual money and receive an in-game item, and sell to people in-game as trade. RMT? Yes. Is it bad? No.

Now, the people saying "this is pay to win because people can just buy raid clears with gil they got from real money." Okay. What's stopping them now? Oh right, a little thing called the TOS. The one that is blatantly ignored by people who go out and buy gil so that they can buy raid clears with gil they got from real money. And even those that don't, there's a clear demand for them so people must have the gil somehow. How is either scenario different?

And to others, ruin the economy? Think about it for a minute. You're trading an item for gil that's currently circulating on your server. This adds no extra gil to the economy. What happens when that guy who's all like "haha I have credit cards with no limits" goes and buys gil from the RMT? Let's say they buy 30M. That's 30M instantly introduced to the economy that wasn't there before, because you can be sure as hell the RMT aren't buying anything with it, and most likely the person that bought the 30M already has plans for that same 30M and buys things, spreading the gil around. The more money in an economy, the less the value. When more money is circulating throughout, that's what we call "inflation." RMT could not win with this. Most likely, if a legal form of RMT were available, the players who would much rather have the safety of keeping within the TOS, and RMT would see a lot less as the people who buy these tokens would lean away from the current RMT. What happens when the RMT find out it's not worth it to stay? They leave. Their piles and piles of swimming gil in their vaults would go *poof!* And that neither adds or takes away from the economy, because it was never circulating.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a video to record in which I'll probably be complaining about how much this thread makes my head hurt.

[Bishop81]

By replacing monthly subscription with tokens that can be purchased with in-game currency, you are in effect reducing RMT costs, which they can then use to buy new game versions to bot with.

More bots = more in-game currency = reduction in real-money price = more people buying illegally generated in-game currency = more money for RMT = more game version being bought = more bots...

SE charges: 130,000gil = 1 token = 1 month of subscription
But due to the above scenario, RMT can charge: $10 = 130,000gil = 1 token = 1 month subscription (Nice, legacy prices!)

And SE will see none of this money...
= less money for game development
= more items in the cash shop to try and generate real-world money (because let's face it, it makes the world go round)

With this system, you are in effect putting SE in direct competition with RMTs, who do you think is going to come out on top here?!



Also, pay-to-win: isn't just buying gear, it's buying a spot on a raid team that will clear content for you.

In contrast to what you think, this system isn't putting SE in competition with RMT, it's putting players in competition with RMT.

Anyone can buy a token, players who buy tokens are indirectly selling gil if you think about it ... More competition = cheaper goods (gil is the good in this case). Throw in the existence of a legal route, players will feel safer taking the legal route, token selling will have a competitive advantage v.s. buying from a shady spammer.

The end result is that it screws over RMT because they no longer have a monopoly on RL money to gil conversion.

[KisaiTenshi]

In contrast to what you think, this system isn't putting SE in competition with RMT, it's putting players in competition with RMT.

Anyone can buy a token, players who buy tokens are indirectly selling gil if you think about it ... More competition = cheaper goods (gil is the good in this case). Throw in the existence of a legal route, players will feel safer taking the legal route, token selling will have a competitive advantage v.s. buying from a shady spammer.

The end result is that it screws over RMT because they no longer have a monopoly on RL money to gil conversion.

Nope and Nope.

Every game that has done this, the RMT just buy up all the tokens and resell them. Why bother with all the botting now they can just buy the player tokens and resell them.

[Bishop81]

Nope and Nope.

Every game that has done this, the RMT just buy up all the tokens and resell them. Why bother with all the botting now they can just buy the player tokens and resell them.

RMT ... buy up all the tokens ... That obviously means that the tokens were too cheap! Players selling tokens should gouge them for more gil - i.e. supply and demand will automatically fix it.

What does this have to do with botting? ...

[Violyre]

Nope and Nope.

Every game that has done this, the RMT just buy up all the tokens and resell them. Why bother with all the botting now they can just buy the player tokens and resell them.

That could simply be fixed if there was a system to limit an item to X amounts of trades. The seller can trade it, but the person traded to would have it bind to them. Same with if it was on MB. Lock it to the buyer.

[KisaiTenshi]

That could simply be fixed if there was a system to limit an item to X amounts of trades. The seller can trade it, but the person traded to would have it bind to them. Same with if it was on MB. Lock it to the buyer.

Defeats the purpose of it then.

Look, I've played two (freemium in NA) games that have tried to do this, and one was shut down (Wizardry Online), and the other has more bots than players (Archeage.) In the latter, the gold inflation (from the RMT, though easily-killable bots) effectively made it so that 20$ buys you less than a dollar in benefits. Both of these were PvP games. EVE is also a PvP game. FFXIV is not a PvP game.

Did it put an end to illegal RMT? No. It just ramped it up.

In the latter case, now instead of RMT bots stealing your account and looting it, they instead wipe out your credit card with these tokens, and sell them to players below cost.

[Jamein]

Defeats the purpose of it then.

That doesn't defeat the purpose at all, if the item in question can only be sold over the MB ONCE, and the person who purchases has it locked to their account, then the RMT bots are not going to buy them up, it would be a complete waste for them.

Reading through this thread the arguments against this are quite strange, pay2win? What are you winning? There is no REAL PVP in this game, the only real competition in the game between players/FC's are world first clears which would effect about 0.001% of the population.
I'm not exactly for the system, but my own reasons are because I don't think a game should encourage those who have more time than money to grind for gold so they can pay for their next months subscription. Might be good for subs but from an ethical standpoint its stupid as hell. Hey kid, your mom wont pay your sub? Here's an idea, instead of getting a paper round go farm gold so you can play more!

/shrug