It's time to reevaluate the idea of adding a PLEX/Chronoscroll-like system to FFXIV

[Ninjasmine]

People already buy coil runs, and people already can buy crafted i110 gear, which will be obsolete by the time the next major patch comes(and since Yoshi-p says he's not doing that again, then that's less of an option). So adding a way for poor people to KEEP PLAYING THE GAME would not affect anything.

Other reasons I saw mentioned:
-Can buy endgame crafting stuff? Because a person selling Chronoscrolls is sitting on all 50s in DoH/DoL amirite? if that were the case, then I would assume they'd already be working towards that goal. But besides that, "Wow more crafters crafting stuff for the market!?!? SOOO BADD OMG!!"

-vanity stuff? you mean the same vanity stuff SE has in their cash shop in a P2P game? since selling vanity stuff isn't considered p2w, then obviously buying vanity stuff can't be considered p2w either. Oh and TERA also did the P2P with CS before they went F2P too, so since that was a 'failure' according to some, maybe SE should stop doing that too?

-bribing other players? up to the player to decide if he wants to take the bribe or not, nothing to do with the economy.

-housing? that's a game design issue. if there were more plots available for more people, it would be less competitive! even now you can save up for weeks, only for that house to be sold to someone richer. that's Eorzean life for you.

-RMT has already been discussed into the ground so no need to bring that up again.

In the end it just seems to come down to people not cool with the fact that richer folks in real life, could get fake money by using their actual hard earned wealth, to supply other people with more gameplay. Which would also mean less people having to drop their active subscriptions due to real world concerns. All because some people could buy coil runs(people are already doing this) and crafted gear? What are they gonna use the crafted gear on? The raids they already bought? For vanity(oh noes!)? PVPLOL? Or maybe to do raids with their statics, since the gear doesn't carry you through mechanics.

[xxAtticusxx]

I think it'd be a great addition to the game. Would definitely help combat RMT.

[Zohnax]

Actually, more people who just undercut for the sake of undercutting is a bad thing. Half the incentive of being a crafter/gatherer is making some profit, not reselling an HQ item for less than the total cost of materials. This has everything to do with people wanting instant-gratification and then they'll whine about the next thing they actually have to put forth some effort/time in an MMO to obtain. Taking from someone else for yourself does not create anything. Housing had plenty of notice, and plenty of time for people to save up for the doubled estates several months ago, but they didn't and/or knowing the popularity of housing, didn't camp a house and buy it asap. Who's fault is that? You're not entitled to a house, and hundreds of thousands certainly had the opportunity though. It also does not matter if someone wants a raid drop just for Vanity, that doesn't negate the value of the item's potential use. Stop demanding and start earning.

[Duuude007]

I think it'd be a great addition to the game. Would definitely help legitimize RMT.

Or that, rather.

[axemtitanium]

Exactly. It can be considered a viable test model for what OP wants. It was heavily exploited.

What lessons were learned here, OP?

I actually think the price curve on wedding bands beautifully illustrates the power, limitations, and overall effectiveness of what a PLEX system could bring to FFXIV. Like any new item, it launched with a very high demand, commanding a powerful "premium" price point. Some enterprising extreme risk-seeking players gambled on this item being worth money and ponied up. I saw people boasting that they sold bands for 30M+ on day one. As the gold-digging masses caught wind of the entrepreneurs' success, the market became saturated with people hocking platinum bands for 15M, 10M, 5M, 2M gil. I think I saw some desperate stragglers selling them for 400k, futilely mining at that gold vein long after it had run dry.

The biggest weakness in all the doomsday scenarios that people keep dreaming up is a lack of follow-through for all steps of logic. SE sells a PLEX item to Player A for $10 through the cash shop which has no inherent guaranteed value in and of itself. Player A sells this item to Player B for some amount of money (let's just say 20M gil as a made-up number) which Player B already had earned previously through any of the ways people make money in this game. No gil is created as a result of this transaction; in fact, a little bit is destroyed as a result of Market Board taxes. 20M gil now has a "real world value" of $10 (although keep in mind that there's no way to transform 20M gil back into $10, legally).

I've seen the argument that illegal RMTers will just "lower their price and make even more money!!!!!11!". First of all, RMT botting has a finite upper limit to how much gil you can make per time per character. It's impossible to exceed this limit without paying for another character subscription. The price that RMT tells quote to you is the highest they can get away with charging based on supply (their ability to generate gil) and demand (people's needs to buy it). If suddenly, SE gets into the PLEX business, they now have a competitor to deal with who is both more trustworthy and won't get you banned for transacting with. So RMT has to lower their price to compensate for their lack of credibility. Let's say they're forced to sell gil at $10 for 10M gil. All of a sudden, the RMT business has had its profits slashed in half, for no reason, and with no way to make gil any faster. It has literally become half as profitable, per time, to spend money operating in this game. Yes, they can purchase PLEX with gil for their own characters to use but that just eats into their own bottom line even further. And if that character gets banned? That's even more profit lost.

Well, it doesn't stop there. The PLEX-buying players, feeling pressured to compete with RMT prices, will continue to undercut each other and the RMT to drive the price of PLEX down on the white market. It becomes a vicious cycle of undercutting until all but the most dedicated, penny-pinching, desperate RMT can still afford to operate in this game due to falling "real world value" of gil, lack of profits, and increasing costs. Eventually, the gil market value of PLEX will settle at some sensible rate with only minor seasonal fluctuations. I'm going to put my economist hat on and wager that the stable market price of a PLEX-like item in FFXIV will be no greater than 300k gil on a server with a mature economy. This is how RMT will be directly impacted by the introduction of PLEX.

I wrote all of this, in so many words, in the OP. I guess it was too much to ask for all the forum warriors in General Discussion to read actually it. To all the people who got so frothingly mad at my OP, I hope your jimmies were thoroughly rustled.

[Intaki]

Housing had plenty of notice, and plenty of time for people to save up for the doubled estates several months ago, but they didn't and/or knowing the popularity of housing, didn't camp a house and buy it asap. Who's fault is that? You're not entitled to a house, and hundreds of thousands certainly had the opportunity though.

How much notice did players who weren't even playing the game yet get about housing? The housing situation is entirely SE's fault, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just some special snowflake desperate to try and keep their special thing for themselves.

Also, I'm pretty sure there aren't more than 20-30 thousand houses on every server combined, so I don't know where you're getting "hundreds of thousands".

And as someone who pays real money (you know that thing your parents sometimes take out of their wallets), I kinda think I am, in fact, entitled to have access to every feature the game has to offer. Features developed with the money I have paid the company.

[Fenral]

snip

It's a sound argument, and definitely something the devs are thinking about. I have a few friends who would benefit from a system like this, so I'd like to see it happen.

If and when it does, the rage will be palpable, but the most vocal opponents will probably still pay their subs. Everybody wins.

[Bishop81]

OK, cutting to the chase, I'm really neutral with regards to such system.

Cons -
Allows RL money to influence the game (even more). That said, we already have the sales of minions, dyes and mounts. RL rich people are already having a "better time" than the rest of us. What's one more drop of gasoline on the raging inferno?

Pros -
Poor people, who have too much time and are good at making gil, can play for "free" I suppose.
Face it, people are going to buy gil, one way or another. Might as well have them benefit SE and other players while doing so - rather than funding spamming RMTers.

[Zephyranthes]

No. I've played Tera with this system and I'd rather have a full subscription model. The economy completely changed with the introduction of subscription extending items in-game.

[Black-Forest]

All of the people screaming "No! This is pay to win and pay to win is of the devil!" - It's a kneejerk reaction to something no one really has any firm "evidence" of what this would actually do to the game's economy. Speculate all you want - either side of the argument - but anything at this point is purely that, speculation. Wildstar and Tera both had different target audiences and different styles than FFXIV. WoW is the real test for the genre.

Honestly, I don't think anyone in this thread has really expressed a "middle ground" opinion here, so I'll go ahead and do so. This topic was dead for God only knows how many months - let it rest for a few more. It won't kill anyone to wait 6 months. FFXIV is booming right now! We're in a great place for subs and activity, and Heavensward is coming soon. Anyone who needs ToS-legal RMT right now should probably consider that they would be part of the potential problem, not the benefits.

WoW is the closest thing to FFXIV out there. Let's wait and see what their PLEX-like system accomplishes, how it effects the game's economy, and then come back and have a more educated discussion that doesn't need to devolve into childish slap-fights and quote wars that accomplish nothing other than to reveal their contributors' immaturity.