The random rule is not okay

[Madigari]

How have I insulted you?

By continually trying to frame the argument as "some players just want everything to be easy"? Acknowledging that all one star cards makes it impossible, but making sure to add "which hardly ever happens" to make it seem like I'm talking about a one-in-a-million occurrence? Nevermind the fact that JayCommon has posted numerous hands showing just that in the span of a night.

Again, this isn't about making things easier, this is about making the rules affect both persons in a match instead of just one person and leaving the other in a unique position to win the majority of the time. Whether or not it makes it easier is irrelevant to the point. If they still draw their god-tier hands, I would be perfectly fine with that. To reiterate, I've already beaten them and farmed them, even without the Random rule affecting them. But the Random rule -should- affect them, same as every other rule that already does.

[Madigari]

Game mechanics do apply, it's just that it doesn't look like it is because of the smaller decks.

This isn't introducing a rule. This is a rule that's already in place that doesn't affect the NPC one iota, compared to every other playing rule in the game which does. You can say that it "does apply", but it really doesn't. As SummonerSenah pointed out, in what way is it random if the NPCs have a deck of 6 and occasionally, they go with 1 2 3 4 6 sometimes instead of 1 2 3 4 5, something other NPCs already do even -without- the random rule?

It could potentially make it easier, sure enough, depending on how you went about it. But I'm not saying give them all one star cards. I'm not saying give them all two star cards. All they need to do is at least double the size of their original card list with 3 star cards to make the NPC's deck affected by Random.

[DarkDedede]

I think another big issue I've experienced is that the computer seems to place their cards around your hand, even with the "All Open" not being in place. It's bad enough that majority of the time your hand is random garbage, but it's an even bigger issue when the computer can also reference your hand, when you can't see theirs.

[Milleus]

My thought process when posting that was..
if you want it to negatively affect the NPC, it could potentially make it easier (as you've pointed out), and made a dropping comment "i guess these days everybody just wants it easy".

I was not very clear in showing what I was thinking about and I guess that may have inadvertently insulted you.
I apologize for it, and I hope you'll understand that it was never my intention to insult you.

I will edit my previous post.

EDIT: as mentioned below, asking for fairness will make it easier. I hope this helps you to see why, to me, it has to do with easiness.
This isn't a twist of argument.. just a thought process that wasn't shown clearly.

[Hasty_Touch]

All they need to do is at least double the size of their original card list with 3 star cards to make the NPC's deck affected by Random.

Again, this isn't about making things easier, this is about making the rules affect both persons in a match instead of just one person and leaving the other in a unique position to win the majority of the time. Whether or not it makes it easier is irrelevant to the point. If they still draw their god-tier hands, I would be perfectly fine with that. To reiterate, I've already beaten them and farmed them, even without the Random rule affecting them. But the Random rule -should- affect them, same as every other rule that already does.

By applying your solution, we introduce more 3 star cards to the NPC's deck so that the random rule is more fair (in terms of game mechanics apply). By doing so, the NPC will have a higher probability of getting "crappier" cards, e.g. a full set of 3 star", compared to the current situation. So while it does seem more fair, it's also made easier because of probability.

The solution provided is basically asking for both fairness and easiness even though you're insistent that easiness has nothing to do with this.
I hope you can see why some people think that you want things easier - because the solution was a bad example.

[Welsper59]

By applying your solution, we introduce more 3 star cards to the NPC's deck so that the random rule is more fair (in terms of game mechanics apply). By doing so, the NPC will have a higher probability of getting "crappier" cards, e.g. a full set of 3 star", compared to the current situation. So while it does seem more fair, it's also made easier because of probability.

The solution provided is basically asking for both fairness and easiness even though you're insistent that easiness has nothing to do with this.
I hope you can see why some people think that you want things easier - because the solution was a bad example.

Well... technically, when one side is essentially ignoring the rules of the other (i.e. only one 4 or 5-star card), it's essentially cheating. This means that being fair in that case, which does mean no cheating, would be making it easier to win lol. In the case of TT and the NPCs, there is no separation of "fair" and "easy" ONLY because of circumstance. It'd be like someone hacking the game and setting it so they always roll 98 on everything, but not 99 because they think it's "fair" to allow people to win, even if it's a very rare occurrence lol. I don't think anyone would argue that such a situation makes it difficult for you to win, and if the hack wasn't used, would ease your chances of winning.

The bottom line is just that the NPCs play at such an unfair advantage that it serves as nothing more than frustration and arbitrary gating (as though the low LOW chance of getting the 4-5 star card that you want wasn't bad enough). It's not even fun nor beneficial in any way. This would be like SE literally making it impossible for you to win a fight, simply because you got a bad RNG roll upon engaging a boss. Oops, you rolled a 97... you need a 98 in order to remove the invincibility of the boss. Lose the fight and try again. Then when you get the 98, and manage to beat the boss, the game decides that you need a 99 to win any sort of reward. GG, gonna go DIAF.

Honestly though, Random is not as bad as people make it out to be, for what it is. Random can actually be VERY enjoyable when played on even ground (like other players). It can certainly be frustrating, but that's where other rules come into play. The Plus rule complicates things, but makes them IMMENSELY better IMO. The Plus rule is so good, in fact, that it can usually make even Random or Chaos enjoyable. Not joking. If SE is that adamant about keeping the NPCs with only the good cards, then AT LEAST put on additional beneficial rules (like Plus, Ascension, Same, etc). These rules most certainly can backfire on us, but at least it'd make even a 1-star card a potential game changer and give the player a chance of winning a little more often. Plus (and other rules) makes us think, it makes a Random/Chaos game feel a little more controlled (since it's already not, given the NPCs hand), and we can actually have a little fun in the process.

Right now, if we win against Rowena, Landenel, or Swift (among others), it's not going to give us a sense of fun or accomplishment, but frustration. Simply because we then worry about a second bout of RNG in whether or not a card dropped that we wanted. If you don't get it, you're at the mercy of RNG again. Rinse and repeat the 2-fold RNG success every 50 seconds. You'll never look at ANY match against Rowena or Swift, and say "that was fun". I can certainly say that about having played Random and Chaos against another player though. I can say that about either Random or Chaos and another of the previously mentioned rules against another player. But that's because it was a fair match up. The occasionally stupid AI might be the reason why it's set up the way it is, but then they could still just add another rule to some of these NPCs to give the player a fighting chance against RNG that determines whether we win or lose before you even begin.

TL;DR: Fair will always mean making something easier, NPCs need mutually beneficial rules like Plus added to Random, and Rowena is a bitch.

[Aeyis]

The solution provided is basically asking for both fairness and easiness even though you're insistent that easiness has nothing to do with this.
I hope you can see why some people think that you want things easier - because the solution was a bad example.

The only thing the solution asks for is for the Random rule to apply as its description claim, and as its mechanics are (when they are in effect):
to affect both parties.

Most the people who argue that the Random rule is not working correctly for NPCs are forerunners when it comes to card collecting.
Beating these NPCs is not an issue for us, nor do we require the fights made easier.
Things made easier has nothing to do with this. You are still trying to make an argument where there is none.

Aeyis, are you really going to be that kind of person?

Take a chill pill. I'm just calling it as I see it.
You're much too opinionated to accept the fact that there are people who like the current system.
If it upsets you that much, perhaps you shouldn't be here.

Edit: you can keep bashing all you want, but it's not gonna change a thing.

The bolded part was correct. But it does not change the validity of my argumentation. I am not too opinionated on the matter, however. It is because of yourself and Mileus blatantly not only ignoring our arguments, and facts; but changing them so they benefit your none-existant argument.
All for the sake of winning some argument, it seems.

The curreny system is broken. If you want to be masochist and like it, go ahead. But don't ask the rest of the community to be.



You still havent answered my question. Since the argument you attempt to make is ''you are just asking for things to be made easier'', well then; how difficult is it for you?
How much of a challenge do the harder NPCs give you? How many have you beaten, have you collected all their cards?
Gotten a 100 wins against each of them?
While normally a fallacy, in this particular discussion it is a very valid question, I think.

With my current card pool, it is already easy to win against any NPC. (even Swift) Less so against the Random rule, because it can become literally impossible to win depending on your dealt cards.
However if the Random rule was not in effect I could probably get a 95% winratio (or even near 100%) against Landanel and Rowena. How good would your ratio be?
Because if even without the Random rule you would still find a challenge in defeating these NPC; then the point you are trying to argue is even more none-existant.


Now, an actual opinion of mine, to contrast the above logic:
To me it seems like you don't actually play TT at a level high enough to be a good judge of what provides a natural challenge, and what is just a broken feature. You seem very much intent on avoiding detailed responses when it comes to TT's mechanics. Almost as if your only intent was to troll.

That is however, just my opinion. Unlike the part above.

[Milleus]

Aeyis, Hasty is not here to make an argument.
He's trying to explain to Madigari that because of the example he has given, it has led to a misunderstanding (see my previous post and Welsper's post as well).
Please read the posts with more positivity. Not everyone is here to "pick a fight".

TL;DR: Fair will always mean making something easier, NPCs need mutually beneficial rules like Plus added to Random, and Rowena is a bitch.

Welsper made a good point. Asking for something fair will mean making something easier, thus the misunderstand I had with Madigari (thank you for seeing that).
I've already apologized and I hope this will resolve this issue.

[Hasty_Touch]

Angry wall of text.

please note that throughout this whole discussion..
i have not "taken" any sides. I'm merely summarizing what has happened, explaining why there are two different points of view and why there's a misunderstanding. your belief is that the current system is broken, but hey, guess what, there are people that like it how it is. instead of trying to understand why there are people that enjoy it like how it is, you link them a MrHappy video telling them they should go learn the rules, question their credibility and hurl insults. You sir, are indeed, opinionated.

reviewing all your other posts i can safely conclude that the only troll here is you because you're mostly picking fight with others.
and i don't feed trolls so.. added to ignore

[Savader]

I am glad I'm not the only one who thought Landenel was total BS. Could not agree more with the OP, and it definitely should be made fair by at least forcing the NPC to follow its own damn rules, Square Enix... Seriously cannot stress that enough.

That aside, has anyone else gotten the feeling that some NPCs know what's in your hand despite it being a closed-hand game?