The random rule is not okay

[QT_Melon]

I don't think so much the thread was about a chance to beat the NPC, but rather dealing with an NPC with low replay value due to the balance of this challenge. This makes a key difference. It's like why go to a dungeon with little replay value, and this NPC is being viewed as such. I have to agree this makes it problematic. Chiding people for not having more cards or saying they don't know the strategy isn't helpful as well. It's not addressing the core issue. I agree if the NPC had random cards in the deck it may at least make it more interesting.

On one hand it does make people do the Odin trial a bit more, but as far as enjoyment of a challenging match with an NPC, it's not there so much otherwise it would be a crowded NPC. Instead it's like the Aurum Vale of NPCs.

The only suggestions I can think of is hoping for a deck that pushes rows upward where it force the NPC to stick Odin up in the top, since it's the last card played due to the NPC's AI

[Welsper59]

I really do enjoy helping people, I made a TT linkshell on my server for this reason (as well as to make matches easier to set up). As I mentioned before, I'm not so inclined to going into a detailed explanation because most people in this thread are not interested, pretty much every single person in this thread has met every rational suggestion or attempt at an explanation of how it works with either skepticism, bad attitude, or an indication that they didn't even read the post.

It does no harm to simply hear people out and ask questions about the parts you may not understand. Stop being so quick to judge and close minded, stop immediately trying to disprove or belittle people, especially when you don't even read the entire post because then you are just proving your lack of reading comprehension.

I think you should all stop being negative assholes and own up to your responsibility of upholding a good community, try being a decent human being for once.

Based on your replies in this topic, I think you actually come off as one of those people that kinda jump the gun, but in a passive aggressive manner (unlike some of our peers). The main complaint is sort of two-fold in this thread. NPCs don't suffer the random rule and that random draws are (obviously) RNG. The latter is obviously something that's a "tough, deal with it" situation. With the former though, even if the rules for the player don't apply to the NPC, it doesn't exactly disregard an unfair treatment of the game for the player. It'd be like if the tutorial stated that NPCs in racing were immune to the handicaps that items can cause and double the duration and effect of buffs, but just because it says it doesn't mean it's fair lol. Just because it's possible to beat them, doesn't mean the playing field is treated as even (even without Random).

That's probably the biggest gripe that people in the thread have, I think, the unfair nature of how TT was designed (namely with Random). I personally don't mind it, despite the obvious frustrations it can cause, but I'm not blind to the disadvantage the system intentionally gives the player, so I can sympathize. It is what it is right now though, so people just have to deal with it. Many suggestions were met with snappy replies simply because of what accompanied the suggestions and advice was things that most people already know, but made out to imply that the people giving it are claiming you don't know what you're doing. Implying people are bad because RNG has dealt them bad hands continuously? Not exactly the best person to get advice from when they don't even give any indication they know what the topic itself is about: Random rule. The rule that RNG dominates and basically determines whether you win or lose (includes draw) the match from before it even begins.

Still though, seeing you say "try being a decent human being for once" when your replies have been rather high nose with comments like "I'm not so inclined to going into detailed explanation" is unusual. Which just FYI, does come off as snooty and stuck up. Maybe reply in a way that actually helps people, rather than ignoring how someone else replied (the Lalafel player), regardless of relevant information, when they did so in a snarky manner that seemed to ignore the main problem. Being a decent human being also includes sympathy, rather than simply trying to be correct or "above" others about something.

[Aeyis]

I think you should all stop being negative assholes and own up to your responsibility of upholding a good community, try being a decent human being for once.

My quarrel was with the arguments you used, not with you. With that in mind, it might be a good idea to reread all of the posts in this thread.
My apologies for not covering my words in the smell of roses, but rather responding in a stoic manner.

[Erudain]

after playing Landenel 2 hours today I managed to beat him 3 times....that's has to be an amazing rate of 3/40 games more or less....I have 52 cards and those 3 victories were with "decent" draws and him making some dumb play....
Ohh and didnt get the Odin card on those 3 victories.....starting to think farming the trial will be faster...

[Kharhaz]

First off, you outright claimed that myself and Tadacho were wrong, purely based on the fact that you could not accomplish the same thing. I'm sure that people are going to get defensive or claim otherwise, but your posts certainly convey this message. In any case, this is what happened when I tried to post an explanation of one possible outcome:

"The text that you have entered is too long (2442 characters). Please shorten it to 1000 characters long."

So I'll split it up I guess...

Landenel does not have a spectacular deck either, Ifrit and Titan are hardly better than most 2 star cards and usually one of the two will usually be played first whether you can take it or not makes no difference because Landenel will always put them somewhere that is advantageous to you. Next, the ideal situation is Ifrit being placed on the bottom right, from here you can easily bait Bahamut or Odin if you've got a halfway decent card, Rhitathyn or Succubus work extremely well if you are lucky enough to pull one of them. Odin will either take it and leave himself exposed, or be placed on top of it for no effect. If he uses Bahamut that's still fine because you can easily capture him in that position. His other cards are nothing to worry about, but you need to prepare for the second 5 star, so at this point I pretty much try to trade cards with him in order to minimize the use of his remaining 5* (sometimes there is no second one, but better safe than sorry). This is why your cards for the most part don't matter, but I'd say you need at least 2 good corner cards and a halfway decent epic or legendary, your other two cards are simply used to block off the board and recapture or to take his exposed cards.

This is just a partial explanation of one possible outcome/flow of the match, it's not an exact science and there's some odd RNG, but there's nothing bad that will happen otherwise, and sometimes he will use odin defensively in the corner or something and sets up the possibility to take him for free with your legendary. If you analyze the sides of his cards, you should know what directions he can take, and which he can not at all times, the right side of the board is a very good place to start, and you will realize that you do not need as many good cards as you may think, because your defenses will be set up by taking his exposed cards. This is why I say that brute force is a bad way to go about it, I'm not afraid to sacrifice cards to control the board because I can easily take them back later, I know which spots are best to bait and which are best played defensively, as well as which spots are dangerous.

I spent my time developing a real strategy, while others spent their time complaining for no reason. This is why I am reluctant to help you.

Edit: I could elaborate a lot more, but I think I got my point across. Which is that people are focusing on the wrong aspects of this matchup and are not noticing his obvious weaknesses because they think his cards are too strong. A human being has the ability to think, NPCs do not.

[Jesden]

Thanks for the feedback. We've been sharing it all with the development team.

Not very much time has passed since Triple Triad made it's glorious release, and it’s quite possible that the random rule feels a bit more difficult due to the fact that players do not have enough cards just yet.

If you feel it is posing a challenge, we ask that you venture throughout Eorzea to collect more cards and then try to challenge these opponents again! You’ll most likely feel a difference once you have more cards and are able to use higher tiers of rare cards in your deck.

The issue is, more cards would also have the potential to exacerbate the situation. It is a still larger pool of low level cards where you have a /chance/ at getting a 3* hand, shall we say. but there is still a higher chance that you will end up with a 1*/2* hand. and whilst yes, it is possible to win against some opponents with these hands, it turns more into a matter of pure luck than skill, with the odds slated against you in a vastly higher manner than against a normal NPC.

[Kharhaz]

The issue is, more cards would also have the potential to exacerbate the situation. It is a still larger pool of low level cards where you have a /chance/ at getting a 3* hand, shall we say. but there is still a higher chance that you will end up with a 1*/2* hand. and whilst yes, it is possible to win against some opponents with these hands, it turns more into a matter of pure luck than skill, with the odds slated against you in a vastly higher manner than against a normal NPC.

What exactly are you basing your statements on?

[Zephyranthes]

Thanks for the feedback. We've been sharing it all with the development team.

Not very much time has passed since Triple Triad made it's glorious release, and it’s quite possible that the random rule feels a bit more difficult due to the fact that players do not have enough cards just yet.

If you feel it is posing a challenge, we ask that you venture throughout Eorzea to collect more cards and then try to challenge these opponents again! You’ll most likely feel a difference once you have more cards and are able to use higher tiers of rare cards in your deck.

Random is ok if your opponent has similar chances of getting a fair amount of low level cards. This is not the case, NPCs only have a few cards on their decks and even with random, they'll always get high value cards.

Getting more cards in your collection will only help if a big percentage of your cards are high valued. If you collect them all, you'll get a lot of low level cards too.

[SummonerSenah]

I have around 40 something cards now and so I decided to try Landenel again. I still lose quite a bit when I don't get anything other than one star cards. But if I get two star cards and one of the higher cards, I usually draw or win. I got five Titan cards off of him today. I bait him with low cards directly in the middle. They are easy to take back with some of your better cards later. I'll try to post some of my winning games later.

[Kharhaz]

Random is ok if your opponent has similar chances of getting a fair amount of low level cards. This is not the case, NPCs only have a few cards on their decks and even with random, they'll always get high value cards.

Getting more cards in your collection will only help if a big percentage of your cards are high valued. If you collect them all, you'll get a lot of low level cards too.

Actually, if you have all the easily obtainable cards there are 20 one star cards compared to 30 two and three star cards. If you also consider that you are guaranteed a four star or higher, then I would say that means the opposite is true. Not to mention that it's not a big deal to have one or two terrible cards, you should be able to beat Landenel with 2 "useless" cards if you have 3 cards that are all two star or higher.