[dev1017] Materia crafting system & Materia: A Matter of Mystery (08/26/2011)

[Amsai]

Expect people to complain because almost all low tier NM/Dungeon drops are Untradeable.

And non-HQ too

And here I am. I want some more specific comfirmation about this system, but with the information available now, SE finally managed to make me want to quit.

Hmm interesting I didn't think of it like that, I suppose the issue of harshness only remains with unique/non-tradeable gear then?

And this is leading to my issue with this system.

I would not be suprised if untradable gear could not have materia attached. If they encourage the min/maxers to lvl every craft to cap in order to power up all your untradable gear it seems like a bad idea. Especially when they are in the process of removing the benefit from lvl'ing all classes with the future introduction of jobs.

Which does not please me at all.

Read the Notes again, please.

Actually i made it for you:

A failed attempt to attach materia will result in the loss of all items involved in the process, barring the key item.

Yay?........

I love the materia system idea and I am so looking foward to it.

I just want to share with you that if I remember correctly, Yoshi-P mentionned somewhere that rare/ex items would no be able to receive materia, making it so that craftable gears + multiple materia will be more powerful than dropped gears. I will try to look where I read that and come back to edit this post.

This is exactly the reason why I hate this new system! I really need a community rep to answer this. NM/Dungeon drops either need to be just as powerful as the best materia enhanced crafted gear, or should have the ability to be upgraded by materia as well.

I'm... immensely disappointed with the system, to be honest. It's precisely the same sort of thing that's been in many MMOs for years, and all it translates into is an endless, frustrating grind. I'd thought the dev team had stated they were focusing on making XIV less "grind oriented", but if so this is definitely a huge leap in the wrong direction.

While I understand the appeal and benefit of making crafted wares more desirable, consider that all those crafters have jobs with gear they'll want to imbue materia with as well. So, crafters benefit but everyone feels the pinch. Not to mention the whole "progressively more difficult as more materia is added" thing - combine this with total material loss and unless the success rate is quite generous, what we have here is a recipe for endless grinding with dubious payout. They are essentially asking players to gamble with many hours of their time for potentially (or probably, dependent on success rates) no reward whatsoever all in the faint hopes of incremental improvement.

I've seen this in other MMOs and while it's not a dealbreaker and rarely leads to screen-smashing fits of rage... It is very tiresome, and very annoying. I was delighted to have left it behind, but alas, the materia system seems to have fallen to the oh-so-common trap of MMO thinking: "If we give the players more to do, they'll play more!" True. However, all this is accomplishing is giving the players the same thing to do. Over. And over. And over. And there's probably a good chance they will have absolutely nothing to show for it. Giving players more to do is always a good idea as long as it's fun and rewarding. I'm having doubts about both of those with this system.

Don't get me wrong, setbacks are often part of a complete process and certainly have their place - but smashing up all of a player's hard work and saying "Go start over" is just flipping them one big middle finger - especially if they're upgrading + items. What this system accomplishes is discouraging risks and preventing players from using an upgrade system to its full potential.

If the success rate bonus for higher end slots isn't too punitive and the time taken to convert gear to materia isn't overly long, I won't have too many issues with the system. But, honestly, I sort of doubt it'll be that way. I'm expecting a huge disappointment.

Completely agree with this. So lets see....... So far its a hideously boring not to mention crafter-controlled grind-fest, they have mistakenly made the process either not able to be done by an NPC or not using a bazzar mechanic like with repairs (would not trust to trade my gear to anyone), basically creates an easy way to buy your way to success (which incentivizes RMTing, better step things up STF!LOL), and potentially neuters the potency and prestige of NM/Dungeon gear in favor of crafted gear. Why is any of that a good thing?

I personally think that Rare/EX drops will not have materia slotting, nor will be able to form into materia.

And I fear that you are correct.

Yeah I just hope now that JSE (job specific equipment like AFs) will be craftable gears so we can enhance them with materias.

You are joking right? Please tell me you are, because if you arent, then I think I just woke up in the Twilight Zone.

it came from you stating "The crafters win, and we don't get to play a guessing-game with our wallets and with our expectations. "

the moment someone says starts talking about one side "winning" usualy shows theres some bias in there and that they dont want them to win

If it helps at all, I don't want you to win! >.< More specifically I want everyone to win. Whether you dont care, you love crafting, or you love earning things through blood (My unreasonable and un-negotiable view of how all good gear should be obtained, but im willing to compromise to it at least being equal). The only people I truly dont want to win are any of the players that would just outright buy high-end materia enhanced crafted gear (should not be able to do that, its cheating as far as I am concerned) or the RMTs those type of players will certainly buy from (tell me im wrong, dare ya.).

Like I said, Rare/EX and special HQ gear should be protected, but everything else -- including previously installed materia and entire pieces of normal quality gear SHOULD be able to go up in the smoke. And the balance of that should be that materia is strong enough to make that gear as good as unaugmented NM drops.

I would be ok with this, but from what has been previously posted in the past, the goal is to make materia enhanced crafted gear better than NM/Dungeon drops. In fact, from this newest information about the materia system, it seems to me that it wont be just a little better than NM/Dungeon gear, but potentially a lot better than it.

Community reps, could you please verify with the devs on whether or not Dungeon/NM drops are better or at least equal to materia enhanced crafted gear?

I would be equally happy with Dungeon/NM drops being able to be materia enhanced, provided that the materia attachment proccess could be changed to work like getting gear repaired in your bazaar.

For the record, I am not a troll. I just happen to disagree with anyone that likes this system the way it has been presented or due to lack of clarification on the devs part.

This is not intended to be flamebait. I honestly have a very strong opinion about this.

Regardless, this system only benefits 2 groups as near as I can tell: RPs and crafters.

/em equips Flame retardant suit anyways..... sigh.

[Arcell]

Well then Amsai, how do you propose making NM gear the most powerful gear in the game without killing crafted gear? If you make NM/dungeon gear the most powerful gear in the game and/or the most powerful materia in the game you'll get 50s camping them non-stop regardless of their appropriate level just so they can sell it off.

Making crafted gear worse at base but potentially on par or better is more of a risk reward system. Don't like risk, go get the NM/dungeon gear as it's better without any risk. If you want THE best, risk five-slotting crafted gear.

The system DOES benefit everyone. Gatherers are now more relevant due to the catalyst needed. Crafters are more necessary with how things are going. Materia benefits War/Magic classes the most though as they get the best bonuses out of it it seems.

[Atomisk]

The only people I truly dont want to win are any of the players that would just outright buy high-end materia enhanced crafted gear (should not be able to do that, its cheating as far as I am concerned) or the RMTs those type of players will certainly buy from (tell me im wrong, dare ya.).

I see rmt going all crafters and spamming the markets with materia YES! But i don't think you can trade/sell gear once it has materia in it. Or at least you shouldn't be able to.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

You are joking right? Please tell me you are, because if you arent, then I think I just woke up in the Twilight Zone.

Well not really no. If you take my other post you quoted where I said that I think Yoshi-P said that Rare/Ex (U/U) items will not be able to receive materia, then yes I do hope that JSE will be craftable because I'd like to have my WHM or SMN AF set with materias in them. You see where why I said that?

If rare/ex items can be augmented then no I do not want them to be craftable but dungeon drops/quests and such.

[Amsai]

Well then Amsai, how do you propose making NM gear the most powerful gear in the game without killing crafted gear? If you make NM/dungeon gear the most powerful gear in the game and/or the most powerful materia in the game you'll get 50s camping them non-stop regardless of their appropriate level just so they can sell it off.

Making crafted gear worse at base but potentially on par or better is more of a risk reward system. Don't like risk, go get the NM/dungeon gear as it's better without any risk. If you want THE best, risk five-slotting crafted gear.

The system DOES benefit everyone. Gatherers are now more relevant due to the catalyst needed. Crafters are more necessary with how things are going. Materia benefits War/Magic classes the most though as they get the best bonuses out of it it seems.

As i said before, while I'd prefer that NM/Dungeon drops be the best gear, Id be willing to compromise and make it equal between max crafted materia gear and NM/Dungeon gear. But so far from what I cas see, not only will NM/Dungeon gear not be the best gear, but the matria enhanced crafted gear seems like it will greatly outclass it. And its not about risk/reward, I find being able to craft/buy your way to success personally offensive. The very idea pretty much disgusts me.

And maybe the problem lies in a lack of clarification from the devs, and if so I have nothing to worry about, and I'll go my merry way getting my high end gear exclusively through NM/Dungeon drops. But if the materia-enhanced crafted gear is THE best gear period, and there is no way to upgrade NM/Dungeon drops in the same or a similar manner, then I have a big problem with that. Like I said, its my personal view-point, its not like I can change my moral/ethical stance on the issue(looks like cheating to me).

[Dreadnought]

i cant wait for all this new crafting in 1.19! the next update cant come soon enough.

[Amsai]

Well not really no. If you take my other post you quoted where I said that I think Yoshi-P said that Rare/Ex (U/U) items will not be able to receive materia, then yes I do hope that JSE will be craftable because I'd like to have my WHM or SMN AF set with materias in them. You see where why I said that?

If rare/ex items can be augmented then no I do not want them to be craftable but dungeon drops/quests and such.

OK, yea I can get on board with that last statement, but as for crafting them, it would be THE deal breaker.

[Chain]

Of course if they fail to fix stats in 1.19, materia will be nothing more than a placebo anyhow.

[Arcell]

You do know that that's basically how the game is now right? NM/Dungeon drops aren't the best gear in most cases.

Crab Bow HQ is better than Verdant bow.
Jade Hora HQ is better than Verdant Hora.
Engraved Bhuj HQ is better than Canopus Bill.
Banneret Lance HQ is better than Canopus Guisarme.

Why is it that people still going after the dungeon drops in light of this? Because it's safe and to a degree guaranteed. The differences aren't that great unless we're talking +3s but either way they're still technically better.

[Felis]

I think there should be a materia slot limit, and base it off the gear piece. Not unlimitted and make it harder each time a materia piece is added. maybe based on if the item is NQ, HQ, HQ+1, HQ+2, HQ+3 will determine how many slots are available? you could also base it off rank of the item?

There wouldn't be HQ+1 - HQ+3 anymore. Only NQ and HQ

Can you sell an item with materia in it? Or before selling it do we have to purge it of the materia? Is materia gonna be r/ex? or sellable?

マテリアをつけた装備品も、マテリアもトレード可能です。
You can trade both equipment with materia, or materia alone.

ただしEx属性の装備品の場合には、従来通りトレードすることができません。
But if the equipment is Ex status then just like regular you wont be able to trade.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post262878

Can we get materia from battle leve chests as a POSSIBLE reward for finding them, like dark matter? and make the tier of the materia based off the rank of the leve?

only from used and loved equipment ^^

How can we check our spirit bond level? Or do we have to go through the effort of running to the melder to try and just get a message that my spiritbond isn't high enough? Or make the item greyed out and non selectable from my inventory while in the melder menu?

Maybe the same way you can check the equip durability.

like i said before I like the idea of being able to add materia to gear. I'm not sure about having to expend gear to make materia, and then attach it to other gear with the possibilty of losing it all. I am sure more info is going to come out on the system as we get closer to 1.19. But these are just some idea's, thoughts, and questions that come to mind at the moment about what is coming.

The first materia on a gear is 100% safe. Only if you put more then 1 you get the risk