[dev1026] Changes to Claiming and Engaging Enemies

[Nabiri]

Future content will be heavily instanced

R.I.P. open world content. You were my one of my favourite parts of MMOs.
Dark dingy dungeons are the future apparently. ._.
It's too bad. The world is beautiful, and with map redesigns it should be even better soon. As for instanced NMs and such in the open world.. well... I really loved the competition for claiming. NMs are less exciting without it.
I don't like instances to be the main part of a game. I enjoy being able to meet people passing by, have them join on my adventure or go help them out. I like that interaction with the community. I worry that will mostly be restricted to towns now.
This is just my opinion, not the same for everyone. I really worry about this game holding my attention for the years to come.

The other thing that I'm taking from this translation is that it seems the game will be more focused on the destination, and not the journey itself. This is just my interpretation of course, and is yet another thing I disagree with.

This is also the impression I got. :\ In FFXI leveling WAS content. Some of my best memories of the game were leveling parties, meeting so many people, all the adventures we had and all the laughs. The journey was the best part of XI for me... Well in any game. I don't know if a game that focuses on endgame could hold my attention for more than a year or two.

[Murugan]

The whole "future content will be instanced" comment is in response to people who have concerns that the claiming system will be like XI in that it will cause a lot of competition for spawns. Keeping it in that context it hardly means "the death of open world content" it is just there to assuage fears that all content will be heavily competed.

FFXI did the exact same thing and never abandoned open world content. We have an open world dungeon coming in 1.19, we have open world NM's coming in 1.19, and we have a high level open world "dungeon" coming in 1.2, with more planned later.

You people need to stop overreacting over translated Developer responses to arguments in Japanese which you do not understand and then twisting it out of context with everything the developers have laid out for their actual plans for this game.

[Physic]

The whole "future content will be instanced" comment is in response to people who have concerns that the claiming system will be like XI in that it will cause a lot of competition for spawns. Keeping it in that context it hardly means "the death of open world content" it is just there to assuage fears that all content will be heavily competed.

FFXI did the exact same thing and never abandoned open world content. We have an open world dungeon coming in 1.19, we have open world NM's coming in 1.19, and we have a high level open world "dungeon" coming in 1.2, with more planned later.

You people need to stop overreacting over translated Developer responses to arguments in Japanese which you do not understand and then twisting it out of context with everything the developers have laid out for their actual plans for this game.

Its already been officially translated man.

If its not the message they wanted to send in answer to the same questions we have over here, then they wouldnt do translations.

[Murugan]

Its already been officially translated man.

I'm sorry that you still don't comprehend what he is talking about then. I enjoy reingharts translation but they seem to have forced the official reps to do the same (and unfortunately they don't do a much better job), and the result is that you take this stuff out of context and it is easy to see how people are misled.

He is talking about how such a claiming system will work with multiple forms of currently non-existant content, future plans, and responding to a thread full of people discussing the topic. You have none of that context unfortunately in even the "officially translated" post, so you have people jumping to conclusions that "oh no all or even the vast majority of future content is going to be instanced", which is just absurd because nothing like that was ever said, and instead we have confirmation of loads of open world content on the horizon.

Likewise you have people claiming that Power Leveling ala XI is coming to the game, when that also was never said. Yoshi appears to spend all day talking with developers about their future plans, then early in the morning weighs in on Japanese discussions, and what English players get is a translation of those responses which is really pretty confusing for people here.

[Physic]

I'm sorry that you still don't comprehend what he is talking about then.

i understand exactly what he is saying.

He is saying i dont think pleveling is a big deal, i think people should be able to help people to catch up.

I have some issues with that, but overall, we have pleveling already, making it more effecient isnt neccesarily the end of the world, though it is dangerous in some respects.

He re affirmed that open world content wont be that important other than for leveling, he has mentioned it before, the implication is that, hey dont worry about how it effects NMs, because the important stuff will be instanced. that is actually his answer in multiple responses, so i dont think its innaccurate, surely you yourself can realize the only way it wont matter if overworld NMs have problems is if the instanced content reward is the same or better.

In fact, if the instanced content ISNT the same or better, then it means the overworld NM issues are still a big deal, and a lot more should be put into making it work, or even thrive with his planned claim system. Yet nothing has been mentioned on that front.

So if the game isnt instanced for important content, the claim system is a problem, if the game is, then your saying goodbye to important overworld content. You cant have it both ways, unless the claim system is built into the overworld concept, which it he hasnt said it will be anywhere.

Also, instances will become more prevalent in future content. The concept of having to claim opponents to prevent being disturbed by other players becomes less and less relevant, so we decided that claiming is unnecessary.

can that be anymore clear? he is basically saying the game is going to be more focused on instances. in fact thats the first line.

We plan on implementing end-game content that is extremely difficult, so if assistance is necessary to reach this point I believe that it should be OK for players to help each other out, as long as there are players who are willing to help out.

this part shows the focus is on endgame, which is another major thing people are worried about, pleveling makes it seem like the game is just about getting to endgame, and this part of his explanation makes it seem like that is also his vision as well. So yeah people see what he is saying, its what he is saying that they do not like.

[Murugan]

i understand exactly what he is saying.

He is saying i dont think pleveling is a big deal, i think people should be able to help people to catch up.

I have some issues with that, but overall, we have pleveling already, making it more effecient isnt neccesarily the end of the world, though it is dangerous in some respects.

He re affirmed that open world content wont be that important other than for leveling, he has mentioned it before, the implication is that, hey dont worry about how it effects NMs, because the important stuff will be instanced. that is actually his answer in multiple responses, so i dont think its innaccurate, surely you yourself can realize the only way it wont matter if overworld NMs have problems is if the instanced content reward is the same or better.

In fact, if the instanced content ISNT the same or better, then it means the overworld NM issues are still a big deal, and a lot more should be put into making it work, or even thrive with his planned claim system. Yet nothing has been mentioned on that front.

So if the game isnt instanced for important content, the claim system is a problem, if the game is, then your saying goodbye to important overworld content. You cant have it both ways, unless the claim system is built into the overworld concept, which it he hasnt said it will be anywhere.

Fixed, because you took what he said out of context as proof of an intent to do away with open world content, this was never said and the fact is we currently have concrete plans to add more open world content (in fact right now there is a hell of a lot more open world stuff being planned than instanced) which is probably why he felt the need to clarify that there would be lots of instanced content in the future:

for people who are afraid the "first party to attack gets claim" system which is identical to how it is now, and how XI does it will mean that all/most/too much (endgame/important) content will be potentially be restricted by competition.

[Physic]

Fixed, because you took what he said out of context as proof of an intent to do away with open world content, this was never said and the fact is we currently have concrete plans to add more open world content (in fact right now there is a hell of a lot more open world stuff being planned than instanced) which is probably why he felt the need to clarify that there would be lots of instanced content in the future:

for people who are afraid the "first party to attack gets claim" system which is identical to how it is now, and how XI does it will mean that all/most/too much (endgame/important) content will be potentially be restricted by competition.

see my quotes i added of his text, he says, that instances will become prevalent to the point that people wont be competing over overworld resources. That is what he says, and why claiming wont be an issue. It is perfectly justified for people to worry that the overworlds value will be diminished because all indications are that it will be, he says it will be. To the point that people wont have much competition for overworld resources.

Also, instances will become more prevalent in future content. The concept of having to claim opponents to prevent being disturbed by other players becomes less and less relevant, so we decided that claiming is unnecessary.

To davorak, thats my major concern, its not about the anyone can help aspect, it just seems that with the reward system going completely to the first person in all respects, it serves no larger purpose other than helping people without being in their party. Like i said, if large scale pve has you fighting for your life and spending your time with any contribution you make to helping others have no value, or in fact negative value, because you could be doing something else, then its a bad system.

[Physic]

As for instanced NMs and such in the open world.. well... I really loved the competition for claiming. NMs are less exciting without it.
I don't like instances to be the main part of a game. I enjoy being able to meet people passing by, have them join on my adventure or go help them out. I like that interaction with the community. I worry that will mostly be restricted to towns now.
This is just my opinion, not the same for everyone. I really worry about this game holding my attention for the years to come.

I disagree with competition for claiming being entertaining at all, but hey they kept that part. You claim the monster first and you get all rewards.

Far as the open world experience, i think its a good thing and it could still be done, i just dont see this system serving any purpose in the form they are talking about doing it. i think an open claim system, along with sharing some of the rewards, even if its just quest credits, could bring people together, and the could have made interesting overworld boss/events requiring large groups of people working together to benefit each other, even if they werent in the same group or linkshell, but instead they look to be half assing it, and changing the mechanic, without making anything that makes use of it, or encourages social behavior.