[dev1026] Changes to Claiming and Engaging Enemies

[Murugan]

While I completely agree with you regarding the accomplishment feeling you had while leveling up in FFXI, FFXI =/= FFXIV.

Let's face it, leveling in FFXIV will never be what it was in FFXI, grind parties wield lots of exp but it's a total zerg fest with 0 strategy involved. You can get max level in a 1 1 1/2 month or so just being causal.

So leveling up in FFXIV already isn't a feat, this won't change anything.

Did you miss the part where they are in the midst of changes to the battle system and balance so that fights are supposed to take longer in order for more strategy to be needed?

Or the part where they said their goal was 3-4 months for casual play? Just because something is broken now doesn't mean they "don't care about partying" clearly they do because we are getting so much attention paid to it in the next few patches.

[AlexiaKidd]

While I completely agree with you regarding the accomplishment feeling you had while leveling up in FFXI, FFXI =/= FFXIV.

Let's face it, leveling in FFXIV will never be what it was in FFXI, grind parties wield lots of exp but it's a total zerg fest with 0 strategy involved. You can get max level in a 1 1 1/2 month or so just being causal.

So leveling up in FFXIV already isn't a feat, this won't change anything.

Thats not entirely true though Yoshi has said he wants to make fights more difficult and take longer, which I thought great finally the zergfest is over and we can get on with strategy. However they then announce this crazy claim system which completely removes the challenge they say they are adding to the game because now I can just get an R50 outside the party to kill it for me. So what is the point in them spending time to make fights more challenging if they are going to ruin it like this.

People can say well most people probably won't use a PL, well I wish i could believe that but using the whole leve abandoning thing as a basis I imagine a lot will. With Leve abandoning people said the same thing when it started and then I am sure by the end the majority of players were doing it, I know I was and out of every person I know I can't think of anyone who wasn't by the end.

[Murugan]

Thats not entirely true though Yoshi has said he wants to make fights more difficult and take longer, which I thought great finally the zergfest is over and we can get on with strategy. However they then announce this crazy claim system which completely removes the challenge they say they are adding to the game because now I can just get an R50 outside the party to kill it for me. So what is the point in them spending time to make fights more challenging if they are going to ruin it like this.

People can say well most people probably won't use a PL, well I wish i could believe that but using the whole leve abandoning thing as a basis I imagine a lot will. With Leve abandoning people said the same thing when it started and then I am sure by the end the majority of players were doing it, I know I was and out of every person I know I can't think of anyone who wasn't by the end.

Sorry but that's not the same thing at all. If you want to compare it to something useful, how many people did you know who continued to do leve-link groups at 50 just to help others level?

It is far more rare because the person power leveling gets nothing out of it. Power leveling has only ruined grouping in one MMO that I know of and that is EQ1, but this is because EQ1 did no properly cap XP allowing powerleveling to be crazy super fast, that combined with the just complete void of players to group with (one class/character system) meant people either powerleveled or likely quit the game before they reached cap.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

Who says I don't like the other changes?

You assumed that I hated instanced content.. False.



Um what, you mean in one other thread, that was discussing the same exact topic? Surely you can't be serious.

Materia, stat revamp, physical level removal, saved skills per class, etc, etc, etc are all GREAT updates. God forbid I disagree with 1.

One other thread? I guess that is the only thread we have vehemently opposed one another but there are many where I am on the other side of a discussion. It generally goes the same way. I never said or assumed you didn't like any of the current changes I am talking about past topics where I have see you posting about this or that.

You said you didn't want the game to be 90% instanced content and that is my point, not that you necessarily hate instances but you don't want the game to be that way and it is regardless. Are you going to bite the bullet and just stick with the game? I do assume you are the type of player who will stick around and play the game even if you don't care for some of the changes instead of others who will quit on the drop of a hat if they make the game resemble any other successful mmo.

Thats not entirely true though Yoshi has said he wants to make fights more difficult and take longer, which I thought great finally the zergfest is over and we can get on with strategy. However they then announce this crazy claim system which completely removes the challenge they say they are adding to the game because now I can just get an R50 outside the party to kill it for me. So what is the point in them spending time to make fights more challenging if they are going to ruin it like this.

People can say well most people probably won't use a PL, well I wish i could believe that but using the whole leve abandoning thing as a basis I imagine a lot will. With Leve abandoning people said the same thing when it started and then I am sure by the end the majority of players were doing it, I know I was and out of every person I know I can't think of anyone who wasn't by the end.

I don't ever remember him saying he wanted to make leveling harder actually quite the opposite he has been pushing the bill to make it more casual friendly so players can level up quicker and enjoy the game at higher levels with friends. Technically he already did nerf the SP for guildleves as group content and made it more viable to exp in grind groups.

Also you say the new claim system removes the challenge and as far as claiming goes it is still the same, a group still gets the claim and the loot for grabbing the monster first and defeating it. Only thing that has changes is now people can attack the mobs, didn't he say though either in the last post or one prior he was looking into making it where you couldn't help kill NMs though? I could be wrong but I thought I read that somewhere, again we don't have the full details of how the system will work in its entirety.

[Murugan]

One other thread? I guess that is the only thread we have vehemently opposed one another but there are many where I am on the other side of a discussion. It generally goes the same way. I never said or assumed you didn't like any of the current changes I am talking about past topics where I have see you posting about this or that.

You said you didn't want the game to be 90% instanced content and that is my point, not that you necessarily hate instances but you don't want the game to be that way and it is regardless. Are you going to bite the bullet and just stick with the game? I do assume you are the type of player who will stick around and play the game even if you don't care for some of the changes instead of others who will quit on the drop of a hat if they make the game resemble any other successful mmo.

The game is 90% instanced content?

Even if we include 1.19 and quantify "content" as only dungeons/NM/quests it is not even close.

There will be 5 instanced raids, 1 open world dungeon, dozens of open world NM's, open world invasion events, and plenty of open world quests (some which have instanced content). That's not 90% by far, and just because they said that they plan to put a lot of endgame content in instances does not mean it will ever be anywhere close to 90%.

If they were abandoning open world content in favor of mostly instanced I imagine we wouldn't have plans for 2 open world dungeon areas and open world NM's they recently announced.

[Alastor]

Why not just implement a side-kick system like in City of Heroes? Or perhaps an experience boost for players who invite other players to the game, sort of like the Sprout and Elder Mandy caps from FFXI, but instead of just a level sync, the players would also receive boosted experience?

[Vesper]

lol so you assume just because we have a claiming system that allows assistance (which is really pretty common for group MMO's) that it means we won't get alliance content? You people are overreacting, this is pretty standard stuff. Sure people will power level, but people were already doing that using guildleves, and people do that in just about every MMO.

Powerleveling never killed grouping, level sync/solo quest focus/no rewards for grouping has killed grouping, but every MMO I have played with a grouping focus you have been able to power level someone else also. Get over it, it won't become the norm or be "forced on you because everyone is doing it".

Have you ever power leveled someone? They aren't going to be getting 1k xp per kill so it is going to take about as long as a good efficient party. That's not a huge enough advantage for everyone and their mother to offer to power level random player X.

Dude... your assumptions are way off. My comment has nothing to do with powerleveling, your assumption is I have something against power leveling. I power level in some games, some games I get power leveled. That never bothered me. PL to your hearts content, its fine IMO. All I am saying is the change itself, was more drastic than it needed to be, period. There are other ways that it could have been done, better ways. In the end it will likely have very little effect on me either way, I don't hate the new system coming in, I just think the explanation of WHY it was changed is lame when its been done so many times in ways that make more sense.

[AlexiaKidd]

Sorry but that's not the same thing at all. If you want to compare it to something useful, how many people did you know who continued to do leve-link groups at 50 just to help others level?

It is far more rare because the person power leveling gets nothing out of it. Power leveling has only ruined grouping in one MMO that I know of and that is EQ1, but this is because EQ1 did no properly cap XP allowing powerleveling to be crazy super fast, that combined with the just complete void of players to group with (one class/character system) meant people either powerleveled or likely quit the game before they reached cap.

Sorry I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about in my post but if it is regards to the current system on leve's it is still easy to PL and I do it for my friends on an R50, just get them to start on 5 star, I kill everything super quick and they get the big time bonus for finishing the leve fast. So yes it still happens

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Did you miss the part where they are in the midst of changes to the battle system and balance so that fights are supposed to take longer in order for more strategy to be needed?

Or the part where they said their goal was 3-4 months for casual play? Just because something is broken now doesn't mean they "don't care about partying" clearly they do because we are getting so much attention paid to it in the next few patches.

True enough, but I did not make any claim that they do not care about partying. I said they do not focus the game on the leveling aspect of it.

I know that they want fights tolast 30-40 seconds a fight and that the 1-50 curve should be 3-4 months of casual play. I do hope that is what is going to happen.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Sorry I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about in my post but if it is regards to the current system on leve's it is still easy to PL and I do it for my friends on an R50, just get them to start on 5 star, I kill everything super quick and they get the big time bonus for finishing the leve fast. So yes it still happens

PL and leve abandoning for more sp is the the same thing at all. PL requires someone higher level than you, giving his time so you can level faster. Someone has to agree to PL you and you have to agree to be PL'ed as well. Abandoning leves is not the same, it was abusing the system to keep the leves that granted the most exp.