[dev1026] Changes to Claiming and Engaging Enemies

[Heat]

it seems that this game is going to be for the hardcore players at some point in the near future, and solo play will be only for leveling purpose.

i know MMO is for playing with other players, but some times you dont have time, or that number of friends to form a party and do an instance.

[Raldo]

Why am I not surprised at some of the knee-jerk reactions to a system that no one's even had the chance to experience yet. Give it a chance folks, I didn't like it when I first read the plans, but after reading Yoshida's explanation, I actually prefer the upcoming system.

Can you PL with this new system? Yes, but the person (or people) you are PLing have to perform an action on the monster in order to get exp, and if they retain the exp system they have now, you'll get reduced exp if you don't perform an action on the monster when it is at full HP. That sounds like more of a hassle to PLers than the current system...

How to PL with the current system:
Party with low-level person, tell them to auto-follow you and afk and create a path of destruction. If you're lucky enough to be PLing 7 other people of the same level range, everyone will actually gain 7/8 of the exp they would have obtained if the PL wasn't there and nobody even has to do anything (except the PL).

Honestly, I think this new system makes it harder to PL. There are upsides and downsides to all claiming systems, and it's impossible to please all crowds, but this seems like a capable solution to me.

All the above doesn't even take into account the benefits of being able to claim multiple monsters at once. I don't know about you guys, but it's not terribly uncommon to have several un-grouped leve monsters all clustered together, and if you don't want gimped exp from them, you'll have to either be very careful about how you pull them, or just deal with getting beat on while you just take down one at a time; careful not to AOE. Plus, last night I was doing that Garlean Invasion mini-quest thing at Horizon. You don't get credit (or the chance at loot) for killing most of the Garleans if you use AOEs and kill them unclaimed; that was very frustrating.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

Reading the official translation (Thanks, Bayohne, and thank you, Reinheart as well for the previous translation) a few more things stuck out.

First is this quote:


This is why I originally started this thread:



It seems to confirm my disagreement with the new system. Instanced content is great, but it seems that there will be a very limited amount of open world content for us to enjoy. Yes, I noticed the part about large scale PvE content that requires multiple parties, but how much of that content will we see compared to instanced content?

The other thing that I'm taking from this translation is that it seems the game will be more focused on the destination, and not the journey itself. This is just my interpretation of course, and is yet another thing I disagree with.

Another note about PLing.. FFXI had a great PL system. High level players could not kill mobs for you, but they could still help if you needed it. With them curing from outside your party, you still had to kill the mobs yourself, but could focus more on pure DPS than survivability. This is how PLing should work if you ask me. I know PLing will never be something that can be completely excluded, but this new type of PLing is by far the worst type in my humble opinion.

I hope that Yoshi P and the Dev team are a bit flexible on this decision and would be willing to adjust it if it begins to destroy the party system (reading the post, this seems to be the case). If we start to see people reaching level cap in less than a week because of it, I hope they fix it, and quickly.

Why so against instanced content? Who cares where you fight your enemies? As long as you are playing with the group of players you want to play with what does it matter? Because you can't smack talk a competing LS while killing stuff? Minor element, FFXI had a lot of instanced content, BCNMs KSNMs ENMs and whatever else there was even Sea was instanced, sky and HNMs was pretty much the only thing in FFXI that wasn't instanced as far as end game content goes, oh wait they did have some other things I didn't mention but it was a zone based game and in a sense that is instanced content with open world enviroments and factors. Personally I had a blast in the two new instances and that is just the tip of the iceberg of content they will be adding. Which I can understand to some extent why you don't want instanced content fully but on the other hand I cannot see what there is not to like, assuming all the instanced content isn't going to be purely dungeons. Perhaps we will get BCNM battles and stuff like that along with the Primal battles and what not.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Why so against instanced content? Who cares where you fight your enemies? As long as you are playing with the group of players you want to play with what does it matter? Because you can't smack talk a competing LS while killing stuff? Minor element, FFXI had a lot of instanced content, BCNMs KSNMs ENMs and whatever else there was even Sea was instanced, sky and HNMs was pretty much the only thing in FFXI that wasn't instanced as far as end game content goes, oh wait they did have some other things I didn't mention but it was a zone based game and in a sense that is instanced content with open world enviroments and factors. Personally I had a blast in the two new instances and that is just the tip of the iceberg of content they will be adding. Which I can understand to some extent why you don't want instanced content fully but on the other hand I cannot see what there is not to like, assuming all the instanced content isn't going to be purely dungeons. Perhaps we will get BCNM battles and stuff like that along with the Primal battles and what not.

Also, instanced doesn't mean "dungeon" type of content. The NM/HNM can be instances outside in the open world like leves are right now. Plus he said heavily instanced but there will still be some other non-instanced content if they feel it is appropriate.

[MeowyWowie]

Why so against instanced content? Who cares where you fight your enemies? As long as you are playing with the group of players you want to play with what does it matter? Because you can't smack talk a competing LS while killing stuff? Minor element, FFXI had a lot of instanced content, BCNMs KSNMs ENMs and whatever else there was even Sea was instanced, sky and HNMs was pretty much the only thing in FFXI that wasn't instanced as far as end game content goes, oh wait they did have some other things I didn't mention but it was a zone based game and in a sense that is instanced content with open world enviroments and factors. Personally I had a blast in the two new instances and that is just the tip of the iceberg of content they will be adding. Which I can understand to some extent why you don't want instanced content fully but on the other hand I cannot see what there is not to like, assuming all the instanced content isn't going to be purely dungeons. Perhaps we will get BCNM battles and stuff like that along with the Primal battles and what not.

I didn't even bother reading this whole post, just like you didn't even bother reading my whole post. If you did you would have seen..

Instanced content is great

I'm not against instanced content. I'm against 90%+ of the game being instanced.

[Physic]

Why am I not surprised at some of the knee-jerk reactions to a system that no one's even had the chance to experience yet. Give it a chance folks, I didn't like it when I first read the plans, but after reading Yoshida's explanation, I actually prefer the upcoming system.

Can you PL with this new system? Yes, but the person (or people) you are PLing have to perform an action on the monster in order to get exp, and if they retain the exp system they have now, you'll get reduced exp if you don't perform an action on the monster when it is at full HP. That sounds like more of a hassle to PLers than the current system...

How to PL with the current system:
Party with low-level person, tell them to auto-follow you and afk and create a path of destruction. If you're lucky enough to be PLing 7 other people of the same level range, everyone will actually gain 7/8 of the exp they would have obtained if the PL wasn't there and nobody even has to do anything (except the PL).

Honestly, I think this new system makes it harder to PL. There are upsides and downsides to all claiming systems, and it's impossible to please all crowds, but this seems like a capable solution to me.

All the above doesn't even take into account the benefits of being able to claim multiple monsters at once. I don't know about you guys, but it's not terribly uncommon to have several un-grouped leve monsters all clustered together, and if you don't want gimped exp from them, you'll have to either be very careful about how you pull them, or just deal with getting beat on while you just take down one at a time; careful not to AOE. Plus, last night I was doing that Garlean Invasion mini-quest thing at Horizon. You don't get credit (or the chance at loot) for killing most of the Garleans if you use AOEs and kill them unclaimed; that was very frustrating.

they try to tie the idea of claiming multiple monsters or getting reward for killing multiple monsters to having a free kill system, but there is no real connnection. They are doing free kill because they want to, they are choosing to do first claim gets all rewards because they want to. It really has nothing to do with claiming multiple monsters.

I would be fine with the change if it made sense, but it really doesnt. The only difference between the free kill system thry plan to do, and having only one person/party claim is that you kill for no reward. I really dont see the point. the only thing it will effect is power leveling. They have not talked about any new mechanics or things that will take advantage of this system, because there really is no advantage.

What does this have to do with mass scale pve or pvp? they want to have a huge event where you can take part in an epic battle, help everyone, risk your life, maybe die....
and get no reward? no exp, no loot not even quest credit? Its really senseless. It could be interesting, but with the reward system, it just seems like a call for help option is always on. It was always stupid how in FFXI you could help kill an HNM for an hour, getting swapped in and out of parties, but only the team that finished him got credit. SO now, you wont be able to swap in an out, but you can also help them for nothing! what a crappy plan. Screw simple answers, they should have came up with a real system for distributing rewards rather than the first claim nonsense.

[Enyyx]

If this endgame content is as epically hard as they state I can see LS's taking the time to powerlevel their newb armies.

I can also see the mid market economy drying up even more as people skip whole brackets of gear entirely. Dunno if materia will counteract it, guess we'll have to see.

I've been optimistic so far, but now I'm worried :/

[Dargoth_Draconia]

I didn't even bother reading this whole post, just like you didn't even bother reading my whole post. If you did you would have seen..



I'm not against instanced content. I'm against 90%+ of the game being instanced.

Must I always go through this with you? I read your full post and gave you feedback on that post. I guess I will always end up giving you the same answer you hate but if you don't like it quit or grit your teeth and bare it and enjoy the game. Simple as that because the game is going to be 75%+ instanced content and I am not against it nor exactly am I fully for it but it is better than what we have at the moment which is next to nothing. You complaining about it ain't going to change anything and I understand you have all the right in the world to voice your opinion but as Yoshi-P was saying, You can't please everyone 100% someone is always not going to like the changes. It seems you don't ever like any of the changes and I am starting to wonder if you really even support this game at all. If you did it is a proper assumption to think you would welcome the new and be glad to be done with the old. Perhaps you just want your FFXI back? If that be the case go complain on those forums about changing the game back to what you want in a FF title. Me personally as do many others want no FF game to be like the last, they are always changing and always different and that's what makes the experience either better or worse depending on the game, this applies to the MMO titles as well.

they try to tie the idea of claiming multiple monsters or getting reward for killing multiple monsters to having a free kill system, but there is no real connnection. They are doing free kill because they want to, they are choosing to do first claim gets all rewards because they want to. It really has nothing to do with claiming multiple monsters.

I would be fine with the change if it made sense, but it really doesnt. The only difference between the free kill system thry plan to do, and having only one person/party claim is that you kill for no reward. I really dont see the point. the only thing it will effect is power leveling. They have not talked about any new mechanics or things that will take advantage of this system, because there really is no advantage.

What does this have to do with mass scale pve or pvp? they want to have a huge event where you can take part in an epic battle, help everyone, risk your life, maybe die....
and get no reward? no exp, no loot not even quest credit? Its really senseless. It could be interesting, but with the reward system, it just seems like a call for help option is always on. It was always stupid how in FFXI you could help kill an HNM for an hour, getting swapped in and out of parties, but only the team that finished him got credit. SO now, you wont be able to swap in an out, but you can also help them for nothing! what a crappy plan. Screw simple answers, they should have came up with a real system for distributing rewards rather than the first claim nonsense.

By the way we still don't have the full details on how the system is going to work. Sure he did give us a nice outline that cleared up some stuff but I believe that was only a partial post and it is also always subject to change. If it needs to be changed after it has been tested in 1.19 then they will make the proper changes to adjust the loot. Honestly though it isn't much different than the current system except you have the ability to help kill enemies. Unless he announces more on the specifics of the system we are still in the shadows.

[MeowyWowie]

Who says I don't like the other changes?

You assumed that I hated instanced content.. False.

Must I always go through this with you?

Um what, you mean in one other thread, that was discussing the same exact topic? Surely you can't be serious.

Materia, stat revamp, physical level removal, saved skills per class, etc, etc, etc are all GREAT updates. God forbid I disagree with 1.

[Malakhim]

What happened to the Sense of accomplishment when it took a few months to get something and you could show it off....

It never existed for anyone outside the OCD crowd.

Most people prefer their achievements to reflect their own skill at something, whether a tough puzzle they figured out or a close fight where they won through strategy, not waiting hours upon hours of camping.

If your sense of enjoyment comes from amount of time spent, then I've got a freshly painted wall you can watch for me right over here.

You don't get credit (or the chance at loot) for killing most of the Garleans if you use AOEs and kill them unclaimed; that was very frustrating.

Apply this to every mob in the game and I agree 110%. Seriously, why bother giving me offensive AoE abilities if I'm either not going to get the claim anyway or get shit/no xp? Everyone's arbitrary disaster scenarios be damned, it just isn't fun.