[dev1026] Changes to Claiming and Engaging Enemies

[MeowyWowie]

Reading the official translation (Thanks, Bayohne, and thank you, Reinheart as well for the previous translation) a few more things stuck out.

First is this quote:

Future content will be heavily instanced

This is why I originally started this thread:



It seems to confirm my disagreement with the new system. Instanced content is great, but it seems that there will be a very limited amount of open world content for us to enjoy. Yes, I noticed the part about large scale PvE content that requires multiple parties, but how much of that content will we see compared to instanced content?

The other thing that I'm taking from this translation is that it seems the game will be more focused on the destination, and not the journey itself. This is just my interpretation of course, and is yet another thing I disagree with.

Another note about PLing.. FFXI had a great PL system. High level players could not kill mobs for you, but they could still help if you needed it. With them curing from outside your party, you still had to kill the mobs yourself, but could focus more on pure DPS than survivability. This is how PLing should work if you ask me. I know PLing will never be something that can be completely excluded, but this new type of PLing is by far the worst type in my humble opinion.

I hope that Yoshi P and the Dev team are a bit flexible on this decision and would be willing to adjust it if it begins to destroy the party system (reading the post, this seems to be the case). If we start to see people reaching level cap in less than a week because of it, I hope they fix it, and quickly.

[Alaltus]

I'm... hesitant about all this but one things for sure is that this wont be equal across the board unless Yoshi is planning to implement a simmilar system across dol and doh?. Wheres my PL 1-50 for miner/alchemist etc etc? SE wont do that because that would destroy the economy even more so surely? I can relate to the wanting to help newbies catch up but i also know that whenever i did anything for others as a high lv job in xi that took away that players chance to enjoy that content.

[DonMega]

Yoshi says "First Attack" claiming to secure the rewards, i wonder does this include stuff like Provoke etc. because if it does later on i would believe we'd have the same claim bot woes we had in FFXI, Although i know they wanna instances most stuff which i believe would negate most claim competition but any open world stuff would fall subject to potential claim botting.

[Sephrick]

So everyone getting to r50 as fast as they can without the knoweledge of how to do their job is rewarding?

To use XI as an example; at no point in slaughtering thousands of little blue crabs did I learn how to fight an HNM. Not one of those crawlers I killed for hours made me realize a better approach to a difficult mission. Not one single Puk or Colibri showed me how to do anything other than how to either use a weapon skill when my TP was 100% or to mash cure if a mob was actively being fought.

At this point in the history of gaming, especially with over a decade of MMOs out there, developers need to give players the benefit of the doubt. We know tanks tank, damage dealers deal damage and healers heal. I'd much rather learn the way roles in a specific game do those things through fun content than killing the same mob repeatedly with the only end goal being the next level.

Toto-Rak is a perfect example of what a modern day MMO grind should be. Especially since there's a threshold of how often players will start over given the nature of required time devotion to an MMO. Asking players to jump ship from a game they're currently enjoying just to climb a steep mountain with the promise that the real content will be fun is becoming an increasingly tall order.

I'd much rather gather a few friends and spend some required time learning the ropes in places like Toto-Rak. But how many battles must we go through to have a level of familiarity with our class/job's abilities? Does it really take months to figure it out? To me, that means there's something wrong with the game design, not the player.

A grind designed to take a month free of PLing seems like plenty of time to learn how one's chosen roll functions in the game world. Outside of that, it's an unnecessary time sink. I'd rather get the grinding over with and have a time sink like the materia system. One I can do at my own pace without missing out on any content because I'm not at the requisite level yet.

[Alaltus]

To use XI as an example; at no point in slaughtering thousands of little blue crabs did I learn how to fight an HNM. Not one of those crawlers I killed for hours made me realize a better approach to a difficult mission. Not one single Puk or Colibri showed me how to do anything other than how to either use a weapon skill when my TP was 100% or to mash cure if a mob was actively being fought.

At this point in the history of gaming, especially with over a decade of MMOs out there, developers need to give players the benefit of the doubt. We know tanks tank, damage dealers deal damage and healers heal. I'd much rather learn the way roles in a specific game do those things through fun content than killing the same mob repeatedly with the only end goal being the next level.

Toto-Rak is a perfect example of what a modern day MMO grind should be. Especially since there's a threshold of how often players will start over given the nature of required time devotion to an MMO. Asking players to jump ship from a game they're currently enjoying just to climb a steep mountain with the promise that the real content will be fun is becoming an increasingly tall order.

I'd much rather gather a few friends and spend some required time learning the ropes in places like Toto-Rak. But how many battles must we go through to have a level of familiarity with our class/job's abilities? Does it really take months to figure it out? To me, that means there's something wrong with the game design, not the player.

A grind designed to take a month free of PLing seems like plenty of time to learn how one's chosen roll functions in the game world. Outside of that, it's an unnecessary time sink. I'd rather get the grinding over with and have a time sink like the materia system. One I can do at my own pace without missing out on any content because I'm not at the requisite level yet.

I agree on grinding lv's through content like raids is a good example on how grinding should be done. I loved nyzul isle in xi the situation you were put into was never always the same so that feeling of same old same old never really kicked in for me. Maybe thats also because you could only do a few runs once or twice a week though i suppose.

[Davorok]

/looks into Crystal Ball..."I see Mob-Trains and Summoner Burn Parties across Eorzea..."

[Dargoth_Draconia]

Reading the official translation (Thanks, Bayohne, and thank you, Reinheart as well for the previous translation) a few more things stuck out.

First is this quote:


This is why I originally started this thread:



It seems to confirm my disagreement with the new system. Instanced content is great, but it seems that there will be a very limited amount of open world content for us to enjoy. Yes, I noticed the part about large scale PvE content that requires multiple parties, but how much of that content will we see compared to instanced content?

The other thing that I'm taking from this translation is that it seems the game will be more focused on the destination, and not the journey itself. This is just my interpretation of course, and is yet another thing I disagree with.

Another note about PLing.. FFXI had a great PL system. High level players could not kill mobs for you, but they could still help if you needed it. With them curing from outside your party, you still had to kill the mobs yourself, but could focus more on pure DPS than survivability. This is how PLing should work if you ask me. I know PLing will never be something that can be completely excluded, but this new type of PLing is by far the worst type in my humble opinion.

I hope that Yoshi P and the Dev team are a bit flexible on this decision and would be willing to adjust it if it begins to destroy the party system (reading the post, this seems to be the case). If we start to see people reaching level cap in less than a week because of it, I hope they fix it, and quickly.

Why so against instanced content? Who cares where you fight your enemies? As long as you are playing with the group of players you want to play with what does it matter? Because you can't smack talk a competing LS while killing stuff? Minor element, FFXI had a lot of instanced content, BCNMs KSNMs ENMs and whatever else there was even Sea was instanced, sky and HNMs was pretty much the only thing in FFXI that wasn't instanced as far as end game content goes, oh wait they did have some other things I didn't mention but it was a zone based game and in a sense that is instanced content with open world enviroments and factors. Personally I had a blast in the two new instances and that is just the tip of the iceberg of content they will be adding. Which I can understand to some extent why you don't want instanced content fully but on the other hand I cannot see what there is not to like, assuming all the instanced content isn't going to be purely dungeons. Perhaps we will get BCNM battles and stuff like that along with the Primal battles and what not.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Why so against instanced content? Who cares where you fight your enemies? As long as you are playing with the group of players you want to play with what does it matter? Because you can't smack talk a competing LS while killing stuff? Minor element, FFXI had a lot of instanced content, BCNMs KSNMs ENMs and whatever else there was even Sea was instanced, sky and HNMs was pretty much the only thing in FFXI that wasn't instanced as far as end game content goes, oh wait they did have some other things I didn't mention but it was a zone based game and in a sense that is instanced content with open world enviroments and factors. Personally I had a blast in the two new instances and that is just the tip of the iceberg of content they will be adding. Which I can understand to some extent why you don't want instanced content fully but on the other hand I cannot see what there is not to like, assuming all the instanced content isn't going to be purely dungeons. Perhaps we will get BCNM battles and stuff like that along with the Primal battles and what not.

Also, instanced doesn't mean "dungeon" type of content. The NM/HNM can be instances outside in the open world like leves are right now. Plus he said heavily instanced but there will still be some other non-instanced content if they feel it is appropriate.

[MeowyWowie]

Why so against instanced content? Who cares where you fight your enemies? As long as you are playing with the group of players you want to play with what does it matter? Because you can't smack talk a competing LS while killing stuff? Minor element, FFXI had a lot of instanced content, BCNMs KSNMs ENMs and whatever else there was even Sea was instanced, sky and HNMs was pretty much the only thing in FFXI that wasn't instanced as far as end game content goes, oh wait they did have some other things I didn't mention but it was a zone based game and in a sense that is instanced content with open world enviroments and factors. Personally I had a blast in the two new instances and that is just the tip of the iceberg of content they will be adding. Which I can understand to some extent why you don't want instanced content fully but on the other hand I cannot see what there is not to like, assuming all the instanced content isn't going to be purely dungeons. Perhaps we will get BCNM battles and stuff like that along with the Primal battles and what not.

I didn't even bother reading this whole post, just like you didn't even bother reading my whole post. If you did you would have seen..

Instanced content is great

I'm not against instanced content. I'm against 90%+ of the game being instanced.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

I didn't even bother reading this whole post, just like you didn't even bother reading my whole post. If you did you would have seen..



I'm not against instanced content. I'm against 90%+ of the game being instanced.

Must I always go through this with you? I read your full post and gave you feedback on that post. I guess I will always end up giving you the same answer you hate but if you don't like it quit or grit your teeth and bare it and enjoy the game. Simple as that because the game is going to be 75%+ instanced content and I am not against it nor exactly am I fully for it but it is better than what we have at the moment which is next to nothing. You complaining about it ain't going to change anything and I understand you have all the right in the world to voice your opinion but as Yoshi-P was saying, You can't please everyone 100% someone is always not going to like the changes. It seems you don't ever like any of the changes and I am starting to wonder if you really even support this game at all. If you did it is a proper assumption to think you would welcome the new and be glad to be done with the old. Perhaps you just want your FFXI back? If that be the case go complain on those forums about changing the game back to what you want in a FF title. Me personally as do many others want no FF game to be like the last, they are always changing and always different and that's what makes the experience either better or worse depending on the game, this applies to the MMO titles as well.

they try to tie the idea of claiming multiple monsters or getting reward for killing multiple monsters to having a free kill system, but there is no real connnection. They are doing free kill because they want to, they are choosing to do first claim gets all rewards because they want to. It really has nothing to do with claiming multiple monsters.

I would be fine with the change if it made sense, but it really doesnt. The only difference between the free kill system thry plan to do, and having only one person/party claim is that you kill for no reward. I really dont see the point. the only thing it will effect is power leveling. They have not talked about any new mechanics or things that will take advantage of this system, because there really is no advantage.

What does this have to do with mass scale pve or pvp? they want to have a huge event where you can take part in an epic battle, help everyone, risk your life, maybe die....
and get no reward? no exp, no loot not even quest credit? Its really senseless. It could be interesting, but with the reward system, it just seems like a call for help option is always on. It was always stupid how in FFXI you could help kill an HNM for an hour, getting swapped in and out of parties, but only the team that finished him got credit. SO now, you wont be able to swap in an out, but you can also help them for nothing! what a crappy plan. Screw simple answers, they should have came up with a real system for distributing rewards rather than the first claim nonsense.

By the way we still don't have the full details on how the system is going to work. Sure he did give us a nice outline that cleared up some stuff but I believe that was only a partial post and it is also always subject to change. If it needs to be changed after it has been tested in 1.19 then they will make the proper changes to adjust the loot. Honestly though it isn't much different than the current system except you have the ability to help kill enemies. Unless he announces more on the specifics of the system we are still in the shadows.