[dev1026] Changes to Claiming and Engaging Enemies

[Murugan]

Why I don't think Powerleveling will take over for groups.

• Linking is based on party level (the party that claimed) so you will get no linking/linking bonus if you are underpowered for the mobs you are fighting (someone else is fighting for you)
  
  Inconvenience
• Player being powerleveled has to claim the mob first in order to receive the xp
• There is a 10 level above the "power levelee" which means they won't be able to get more than normal capped XP.

Power leveling will happen, it might shock you to learn this but power leveling has been occurring since day one of this game. First through the DMG/healing system, then through guildleve linking (which you could just set someone on follow it was so idiotically simple/repetitive), and now with... guildleve linking, power healing, and simply having a slightly higher level in party who themselves gets a penalty but can effectively "power level" the rest of the group.

I'd certainly rather have power leveling, something which XI grouping co-existed with for years than a level sync system which effectively killed that experience for the majority.

[AlexiaKidd]

I personally agree with Meowy on this issue, the new claim system is completely unnecessary and over the top in my opinion. They could have kept it as is and just allowed you to claim extra mobs. As for being able to help others in large scale PvE they managed it in Campaign in FFXI without having to redo the entire claim system so why not here. It really does seem like they have taken a halfassed approach to this and that bothers me.

What worries me the most is that for me, levelling up in FFXI was a huge part of the journey and there were milestones all along the way be it moving to new area's, unlocking subjob, getting Chocobo Licence, being able to equip that new weapon or piece of gear. It actually felt like an achievement to hit cap, it took me months to get my first 75 and when it finally dinged I was jumping for joy. The whole time I was levelling up was not one huge grind as there was plenty of things to do along the way. In FFXIV there is barely any of that and I didn't even get excited when I got my first R50 as it really didn't feel like an achievement. What worries me is that Yoshi is not going to focus on the journey to cap and instead just focus on what to do when you get there.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

I personally agree with Meowy on this issue, the new claim system is completely unnecessary and over the top in my opinion. They could have kept it as is and just allowed you to claim extra mobs. As for being able to help others in large scale PvE they managed it in Campaign in FFXI without having to redo the entire claim system so why not here. It really does seem like they have taken a halfassed approach to this and that bothers me.

What worries me the most is that for me, levelling up in FFXI was a huge part of the journey and there were milestones all along the way be it moving to new area's, unlocking subjob, getting Chocobo Licence, being able to equip that new weapon or piece of gear. It actually felt like an achievement to hit cap, it took me months to get my first 75 and when it finally dinged I was jumping for joy. The whole time I was levelling up was not one huge grind as there was plenty of things to do along the way. In FFXIV there is barely any of that and I didn't even get excited when I got my first R50 as it really didn't feel like an achievement. What worries me is that Yoshi is not going to focus on the journey to cap and instead just focus on what to do when you get there.

While I completely agree with you regarding the accomplishment feeling you had while leveling up in FFXI, FFXI =/= FFXIV.

Let's face it, leveling in FFXIV will never be what it was in FFXI, grind parties wield lots of exp but it's a total zerg fest with 0 strategy involved. You can get max level in a 1 1 1/2 month or so just being causal.

So leveling up in FFXIV already isn't a feat, this won't change anything.

[Murugan]

While I completely agree with you regarding the accomplishment feeling you had while leveling up in FFXI, FFXI =/= FFXIV.

Let's face it, leveling in FFXIV will never be what it was in FFXI, grind parties wield lots of exp but it's a total zerg fest with 0 strategy involved. You can get max level in a 1 1 1/2 month or so just being causal.

So leveling up in FFXIV already isn't a feat, this won't change anything.

Did you miss the part where they are in the midst of changes to the battle system and balance so that fights are supposed to take longer in order for more strategy to be needed?

Or the part where they said their goal was 3-4 months for casual play? Just because something is broken now doesn't mean they "don't care about partying" clearly they do because we are getting so much attention paid to it in the next few patches.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Did you miss the part where they are in the midst of changes to the battle system and balance so that fights are supposed to take longer in order for more strategy to be needed?

Or the part where they said their goal was 3-4 months for casual play? Just because something is broken now doesn't mean they "don't care about partying" clearly they do because we are getting so much attention paid to it in the next few patches.

True enough, but I did not make any claim that they do not care about partying. I said they do not focus the game on the leveling aspect of it.

I know that they want fights tolast 30-40 seconds a fight and that the 1-50 curve should be 3-4 months of casual play. I do hope that is what is going to happen.

[AlexiaKidd]

While I completely agree with you regarding the accomplishment feeling you had while leveling up in FFXI, FFXI =/= FFXIV.

Let's face it, leveling in FFXIV will never be what it was in FFXI, grind parties wield lots of exp but it's a total zerg fest with 0 strategy involved. You can get max level in a 1 1 1/2 month or so just being causal.

So leveling up in FFXIV already isn't a feat, this won't change anything.

Thats not entirely true though Yoshi has said he wants to make fights more difficult and take longer, which I thought great finally the zergfest is over and we can get on with strategy. However they then announce this crazy claim system which completely removes the challenge they say they are adding to the game because now I can just get an R50 outside the party to kill it for me. So what is the point in them spending time to make fights more challenging if they are going to ruin it like this.

People can say well most people probably won't use a PL, well I wish i could believe that but using the whole leve abandoning thing as a basis I imagine a lot will. With Leve abandoning people said the same thing when it started and then I am sure by the end the majority of players were doing it, I know I was and out of every person I know I can't think of anyone who wasn't by the end.

[Murugan]

Thats not entirely true though Yoshi has said he wants to make fights more difficult and take longer, which I thought great finally the zergfest is over and we can get on with strategy. However they then announce this crazy claim system which completely removes the challenge they say they are adding to the game because now I can just get an R50 outside the party to kill it for me. So what is the point in them spending time to make fights more challenging if they are going to ruin it like this.

People can say well most people probably won't use a PL, well I wish i could believe that but using the whole leve abandoning thing as a basis I imagine a lot will. With Leve abandoning people said the same thing when it started and then I am sure by the end the majority of players were doing it, I know I was and out of every person I know I can't think of anyone who wasn't by the end.

Sorry but that's not the same thing at all. If you want to compare it to something useful, how many people did you know who continued to do leve-link groups at 50 just to help others level?

It is far more rare because the person power leveling gets nothing out of it. Power leveling has only ruined grouping in one MMO that I know of and that is EQ1, but this is because EQ1 did no properly cap XP allowing powerleveling to be crazy super fast, that combined with the just complete void of players to group with (one class/character system) meant people either powerleveled or likely quit the game before they reached cap.

[AlexiaKidd]

Sorry but that's not the same thing at all. If you want to compare it to something useful, how many people did you know who continued to do leve-link groups at 50 just to help others level?

It is far more rare because the person power leveling gets nothing out of it. Power leveling has only ruined grouping in one MMO that I know of and that is EQ1, but this is because EQ1 did no properly cap XP allowing powerleveling to be crazy super fast, that combined with the just complete void of players to group with (one class/character system) meant people either powerleveled or likely quit the game before they reached cap.

Sorry I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about in my post but if it is regards to the current system on leve's it is still easy to PL and I do it for my friends on an R50, just get them to start on 5 star, I kill everything super quick and they get the big time bonus for finishing the leve fast. So yes it still happens

[Kiote]

I personally agree with Meowy on this issue, the new claim system is completely unnecessary and over the top in my opinion. They could have kept it as is and just allowed you to claim extra mobs. As for being able to help others in large scale PvE they managed it in Campaign in FFXI without having to redo the entire claim system so why not here. It really does seem like they have taken a halfassed approach to this and that bothers me.

What worries me the most is that for me, levelling up in FFXI was a huge part of the journey and there were milestones all along the way be it moving to new area's, unlocking subjob, getting Chocobo Licence, being able to equip that new weapon or piece of gear. It actually felt like an achievement to hit cap, it took me months to get my first 75 and when it finally dinged I was jumping for joy. The whole time I was levelling up was not one huge grind as there was plenty of things to do along the way. In FFXIV there is barely any of that and I didn't even get excited when I got my first R50 as it really didn't feel like an achievement. What worries me is that Yoshi is not going to focus on the journey to cap and instead just focus on what to do when you get there.

FFXI Campaign was the most horribly unbalanced attempt at mass alliance xp i have ever seen. A Red Mage without trying could get 4-8k per fight but a DPS or BLM would have to struggle to get 1k. In fact all attempt for large scale PvE in XI were spectacular failures. Specifically because instead of reworking the claim system they tried to use some absurd formula to calculate how effective you were in a battle where most people were useless.

By allowing players to help each other in normal fights they don't restrict themselves to making all Large scale PvE battles into a hoard of mega bosses that take an hour to defeat for a whopping 576xp.

[Alastor]

Why not just implement a side-kick system like in City of Heroes? Or perhaps an experience boost for players who invite other players to the game, sort of like the Sprout and Elder Mandy caps from FFXI, but instead of just a level sync, the players would also receive boosted experience?