[dev1026] Changes to Claiming and Engaging Enemies

[Jabo]

How poeple always think of the worst case scenario only.

I think it is quit obvious that stuff is getting changed, when powerleveling starts to hurt other players experiences.
Mr. Yoshida is saying so in the transtlation himself.

There are also a lot of reasons why pl won't be that big of an issue here.

1. Grinding takes a lot of time. Repetitive, boring time. Don't know if we are going to find that much rank 50s to "help" out. Because...
2. FFXIV is all about leveling different classes. Getting to rank 50 isn't the focus of the game. It is getting as many classes to rank 50 that can help you. In other words: The rank 50s have good reasons to use their 20/30 classes and actually get sp for the hours of hours of grinding.
3. Doing leves speeds the process quit drastically along. We shouldn't forget about these.

But 2 things make me worry.
1. "AoEing" stuff. THM and CON can easily kill 10 mobs, of a much higher rank in seconds. They would be a pl beast if exp distribution is kind of similar.
2. I fear we will see similar restrictions like the 10 rank cap we have now, which would be quite lame.
There would be the first restriction "hard working" gamers will get because of the people who want to exploit the system and it concerns the players who optimized their gear and their skills. It would punish the best players.

[Loony_BoB]

I don't know about "Power Leveling" - I just don't want to be left behind or too far ahead of my friends. If this happens, at the moment it means "stop playing the game". Personally, I would have preferred Level Sync as that is, for me, the perfect way to avoid this problem.

So here's a question to all those against power leveling (and I'm not saying I'll be involved in it, I probably won't if it means people look at me with disgust in the game...): If there is no level sync, what would you prefer I do if I want to get to the same rank as my friends: Power level, or stop playing?

At the moment my gf and I are carefully balancing but on occasion she'll want to play more than I do and will end up a few levels ahead, so she has to stop playing for a while as I play catch up. It's not ideal at all. When our friends all join in (we have a lot of friends interested in FFXIV but many are waiting for further developments in the game before buying / returning), it will be an issue once again, as we will likely be 30-50 levels ahead of them.

[Validas]

If this is the finalized course of action regarding leveling can we get an auto-translate for...

{Thanks for the help, but I'd rather do this on my own}

[Heat]

it seems that this game is going to be for the hardcore players at some point in the near future, and solo play will be only for leveling purpose.

i know MMO is for playing with other players, but some times you dont have time, or that number of friends to form a party and do an instance.

[Raldo]

Why am I not surprised at some of the knee-jerk reactions to a system that no one's even had the chance to experience yet. Give it a chance folks, I didn't like it when I first read the plans, but after reading Yoshida's explanation, I actually prefer the upcoming system.

Can you PL with this new system? Yes, but the person (or people) you are PLing have to perform an action on the monster in order to get exp, and if they retain the exp system they have now, you'll get reduced exp if you don't perform an action on the monster when it is at full HP. That sounds like more of a hassle to PLers than the current system...

How to PL with the current system:
Party with low-level person, tell them to auto-follow you and afk and create a path of destruction. If you're lucky enough to be PLing 7 other people of the same level range, everyone will actually gain 7/8 of the exp they would have obtained if the PL wasn't there and nobody even has to do anything (except the PL).

Honestly, I think this new system makes it harder to PL. There are upsides and downsides to all claiming systems, and it's impossible to please all crowds, but this seems like a capable solution to me.

All the above doesn't even take into account the benefits of being able to claim multiple monsters at once. I don't know about you guys, but it's not terribly uncommon to have several un-grouped leve monsters all clustered together, and if you don't want gimped exp from them, you'll have to either be very careful about how you pull them, or just deal with getting beat on while you just take down one at a time; careful not to AOE. Plus, last night I was doing that Garlean Invasion mini-quest thing at Horizon. You don't get credit (or the chance at loot) for killing most of the Garleans if you use AOEs and kill them unclaimed; that was very frustrating.

[Physic]

Why am I not surprised at some of the knee-jerk reactions to a system that no one's even had the chance to experience yet. Give it a chance folks, I didn't like it when I first read the plans, but after reading Yoshida's explanation, I actually prefer the upcoming system.

Can you PL with this new system? Yes, but the person (or people) you are PLing have to perform an action on the monster in order to get exp, and if they retain the exp system they have now, you'll get reduced exp if you don't perform an action on the monster when it is at full HP. That sounds like more of a hassle to PLers than the current system...

How to PL with the current system:
Party with low-level person, tell them to auto-follow you and afk and create a path of destruction. If you're lucky enough to be PLing 7 other people of the same level range, everyone will actually gain 7/8 of the exp they would have obtained if the PL wasn't there and nobody even has to do anything (except the PL).

Honestly, I think this new system makes it harder to PL. There are upsides and downsides to all claiming systems, and it's impossible to please all crowds, but this seems like a capable solution to me.

All the above doesn't even take into account the benefits of being able to claim multiple monsters at once. I don't know about you guys, but it's not terribly uncommon to have several un-grouped leve monsters all clustered together, and if you don't want gimped exp from them, you'll have to either be very careful about how you pull them, or just deal with getting beat on while you just take down one at a time; careful not to AOE. Plus, last night I was doing that Garlean Invasion mini-quest thing at Horizon. You don't get credit (or the chance at loot) for killing most of the Garleans if you use AOEs and kill them unclaimed; that was very frustrating.

they try to tie the idea of claiming multiple monsters or getting reward for killing multiple monsters to having a free kill system, but there is no real connnection. They are doing free kill because they want to, they are choosing to do first claim gets all rewards because they want to. It really has nothing to do with claiming multiple monsters.

I would be fine with the change if it made sense, but it really doesnt. The only difference between the free kill system thry plan to do, and having only one person/party claim is that you kill for no reward. I really dont see the point. the only thing it will effect is power leveling. They have not talked about any new mechanics or things that will take advantage of this system, because there really is no advantage.

What does this have to do with mass scale pve or pvp? they want to have a huge event where you can take part in an epic battle, help everyone, risk your life, maybe die....
and get no reward? no exp, no loot not even quest credit? Its really senseless. It could be interesting, but with the reward system, it just seems like a call for help option is always on. It was always stupid how in FFXI you could help kill an HNM for an hour, getting swapped in and out of parties, but only the team that finished him got credit. SO now, you wont be able to swap in an out, but you can also help them for nothing! what a crappy plan. Screw simple answers, they should have came up with a real system for distributing rewards rather than the first claim nonsense.

[Enyyx]

If this endgame content is as epically hard as they state I can see LS's taking the time to powerlevel their newb armies.

I can also see the mid market economy drying up even more as people skip whole brackets of gear entirely. Dunno if materia will counteract it, guess we'll have to see.

I've been optimistic so far, but now I'm worried :/

[MeowyWowie]

Who says I don't like the other changes?

You assumed that I hated instanced content.. False.

Must I always go through this with you?

Um what, you mean in one other thread, that was discussing the same exact topic? Surely you can't be serious.

Materia, stat revamp, physical level removal, saved skills per class, etc, etc, etc are all GREAT updates. God forbid I disagree with 1.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

Who says I don't like the other changes?

You assumed that I hated instanced content.. False.



Um what, you mean in one other thread, that was discussing the same exact topic? Surely you can't be serious.

Materia, stat revamp, physical level removal, saved skills per class, etc, etc, etc are all GREAT updates. God forbid I disagree with 1.

One other thread? I guess that is the only thread we have vehemently opposed one another but there are many where I am on the other side of a discussion. It generally goes the same way. I never said or assumed you didn't like any of the current changes I am talking about past topics where I have see you posting about this or that.

You said you didn't want the game to be 90% instanced content and that is my point, not that you necessarily hate instances but you don't want the game to be that way and it is regardless. Are you going to bite the bullet and just stick with the game? I do assume you are the type of player who will stick around and play the game even if you don't care for some of the changes instead of others who will quit on the drop of a hat if they make the game resemble any other successful mmo.

Thats not entirely true though Yoshi has said he wants to make fights more difficult and take longer, which I thought great finally the zergfest is over and we can get on with strategy. However they then announce this crazy claim system which completely removes the challenge they say they are adding to the game because now I can just get an R50 outside the party to kill it for me. So what is the point in them spending time to make fights more challenging if they are going to ruin it like this.

People can say well most people probably won't use a PL, well I wish i could believe that but using the whole leve abandoning thing as a basis I imagine a lot will. With Leve abandoning people said the same thing when it started and then I am sure by the end the majority of players were doing it, I know I was and out of every person I know I can't think of anyone who wasn't by the end.

I don't ever remember him saying he wanted to make leveling harder actually quite the opposite he has been pushing the bill to make it more casual friendly so players can level up quicker and enjoy the game at higher levels with friends. Technically he already did nerf the SP for guildleves as group content and made it more viable to exp in grind groups.

Also you say the new claim system removes the challenge and as far as claiming goes it is still the same, a group still gets the claim and the loot for grabbing the monster first and defeating it. Only thing that has changes is now people can attack the mobs, didn't he say though either in the last post or one prior he was looking into making it where you couldn't help kill NMs though? I could be wrong but I thought I read that somewhere, again we don't have the full details of how the system will work in its entirety.

[Murugan]

One other thread? I guess that is the only thread we have vehemently opposed one another but there are many where I am on the other side of a discussion. It generally goes the same way. I never said or assumed you didn't like any of the current changes I am talking about past topics where I have see you posting about this or that.

You said you didn't want the game to be 90% instanced content and that is my point, not that you necessarily hate instances but you don't want the game to be that way and it is regardless. Are you going to bite the bullet and just stick with the game? I do assume you are the type of player who will stick around and play the game even if you don't care for some of the changes instead of others who will quit on the drop of a hat if they make the game resemble any other successful mmo.

The game is 90% instanced content?

Even if we include 1.19 and quantify "content" as only dungeons/NM/quests it is not even close.

There will be 5 instanced raids, 1 open world dungeon, dozens of open world NM's, open world invasion events, and plenty of open world quests (some which have instanced content). That's not 90% by far, and just because they said that they plan to put a lot of endgame content in instances does not mean it will ever be anywhere close to 90%.

If they were abandoning open world content in favor of mostly instanced I imagine we wouldn't have plans for 2 open world dungeon areas and open world NM's they recently announced.