Triple Triad Card descriptions

[Edellis]

- Garuda's text suggests her powers are what causes Garuda to be such a brutal primal rather than it just being part of her nature. Wording seems a bit weird to me.

I don't think it means her powers literally twisted her mind. I think it's suggesting that her strength is what gives her the ability to be the tyrant she is.

[Belhi]

I don't think it means her powers literally twisted her mind. I think it's suggesting that her strength is what gives her the ability to be the tyrant she is.

The writing seems to suggest it is the powers though:

'The winds she wields, however, have twisted her heart and broken her mind'

[treuhavik]

What I find interesting is this; "the Lord of Levin is a thunderous entity with boundless knowledge of ages past."

They specify that he has this knowledge, leading to believe that not all primals share it. This is worrisome for us theorists...

[Anonymoose]

This is worrisome for us theorists...

Aye, I can see someone sculpting a new theory out of the Ramuh and Garuda cards that invokes some of the FFXI lore about the gods once being specific people. My latest progress on the "Primal Theory" was mostly founded on some strange comments Urianger made and old FFXIV trailers, mostly assuming that they weren't entities but simply the essence of the land, sculpted by belief.

To continue seeing things through my lens while also musing this hypothetical new theory, perhaps you need a soul to begin with - something forced to act as a vessel for that essence and belief. The creation of Phoenix used Louisoix's, after all. It'd certainly solve my problem about Shiva's soul being specifically mentioned. Using that framework, perhaps Ramuh was once a living sage, as he was in FFXI, with vast knowledge of the eras. Perhaps Garuda's soul was not broken until fashioned into the body of the Empress of Birds and forced to contain the essence of Vortex.

Now, I know this is a bit ironic, considering that I only recently said that the song Answers is vague enough to be interpreted a thousand ways... but I've felt that, as the theme to Final Fantasy XIV "Season One," that it was mostly about the primals. The primals we've dealt with in this era are the essences of the Land (Inferno, Vortex, et al.), the six facets of Hydaelyn's light.

First previews of FFXIV: The Land will not suffer man's irreverence.
Lyric from answers The Land's alive, so believe.
Hint from Koji that he loves using the word "forsaken" in things relating to the primals.

Could bring "Our souls have been torn, and our bodies forsaken" into the fold of such a theory.

EDIT
If any of that were true, it might not be out of the question that we'd hear from Bahamut again, someday.
Not the primal god of the Meracydians Bahamut, but the actual brood-progenitor Bahamut...

Hmmm. Maybe I should ponder this whole thing some more.

[treuhavik]

Aye, I can see someone sculpting a new theory out of the Ramuh and Garuda cards that invokes some of the FFXI lore about the gods once being specific people. My latest progress on the "Primal Theory" was mostly founded on some strange comments Urianger made and old FFXIV trailers, mostly assuming that they weren't entities but simply the essence of the land, sculpted by belief.

Right, we had both speculated that the primals were just an element of the land made being by a race that more or less worshiped their respective element, but this new information couldn't be a bigger wrench there.

To continue seeing things through my lens and also just musing on the idea of this new hypothetical theory, perhaps you need a soul to begin with - something forced to act as a vessel for that essence and belief. The creation of Phoenix used Louisoix's, after all. It'd certainly solve my problem about Shiva's soul being specifically mentioned. Using that framework, perhaps Ramuh was once a living sage, as he was in FFXI, with vast knowledge of the eras. Perhaps Garuda's soul was not broken until forced into the body of the Empress of Birds and forced to contain the essence of Vortex.

Before this patch I was 101% sold on the idea that the primals were once people, beastmen included (or in Fenrir's case, beast) -living or dead- and had been infused with the land's essence, BUT did Ramuh not say that he remembered the time of "balance"? This period of time was before man though, was it not? I'm taking this "balance" as either the incorporeal realm melded with the corporeal or the primordial planet. So, in either case, just what in the hells was he?! I...I need a cigarette.

EDIT: Unless... Unless when Person-Ramuh merged with lightning... N-no, I need more time.

[Anonymoose]

BUT did Ramuh not say that he remembered the time of "balance"?

That's the first thing I thought, too.

Whence sprung this calamitous seed? In the beginning, no such duality existed. Were light and dark given form when man was born? It would explain much. Not least why strife and sorrow follow ever in thy wake. Thou canst not deny the urgings of thine own nature.

I figured this would tie back into the Ascian / Zodiark / Hyadelyn story, in the end.

So, in either case, just what in the hells was he?! I...I need a cigarette.

Lemme know where you get with that! lol

[treuhavik]

To explain a bit for others; with 'The Elemental Theory' we could've either had the pre-duality knowledge from the element itself or the collective knowledge of the aether. However, with Ramuh assumed to be the only one with said knowledge it makes things...difficult.

Lemme know where you get with that! lol

Every primal that we've seen created used a host, so a physical body containing aether (aka living [Yes, I would argue that crystals and Zantetsuken are alive]) is needed. From what we've seen of Shiva and what we know of the Ascian's plan, the Echo may be necessary to 'convert' a person into a primal (whether or not Louisoux had the echo remains to be seen and could even be irrelevant due to his knowledge and Tupsimati's power).

Now, if Ramuh gained his knowledge first-hand and didn't commune with Hydaelyn or something of the sort, that means he pre-dates man. One could argue that he's an Elder Primal based on this, but we know that "Elder" is reserved for Primals that have been worshiped for-nearly-ever, not merely existing.

What humanoid beings (because Ramuh is humanoid) could have existed before light and dark were "given form"? Well, what were the Ascians (the two from our world at least) before they transcended death? Don't they too remember that "no such duality" once existed?

I got nothin'! I'm throwing my hands up...and I'm walking away. ...for now at least.

[Magis]

Before this patch I was 101% sold on the idea that the primals were once people, beastmen included (or in Fenrir's case, beast) -living or dead- and had been infused with the land's essence, BUT did Ramuh not say that he remembered the time of "balance"? This period of time was before man though, was it not? I'm taking this "balance" as either the incorporeal realm melded with the corporeal or the primordial planet.

Something along the lines of the Titans in Greek mythology?

[treuhavik]

Something along the lines of the Titans in Greek mythology?

Moose and I were discussing a Greek parallel a while back. Though, it had more to do with explaining The Twelve than primals.

For XIV, I'd say it would be something like; From nothing emerged Hydaelyn (Light/Earth) and, from her crystalline form, fashioned herself a partner, Zodiark (Darkness/Void). Together, Hydaelyn and Zodiark birthed twelve children to wield the six elements and rule each of the couple's creations. Something something something, Zodiark said "No!". Something something, Hydaelyn did it anyway, cue bitter rivalry between light and dark.

[myahele]

Interesting, now we have 3 instances of Garuda not always being twisted in the past.
1st: the myth that eating the flesh of the Lord of Snakes made her crazy
2nd: The lyrics of Garuda's theme is "Falling too far from the light.Deeper into the night. Lost here inside my own hell I am a broken angel"
3rd: Her TT description

I almost feel sorry for her; maybe a part of her "nicer" self is still inside her, but her eating the Snake Lord poisened her mind. She *does* have a penchant for consuming other's aether