Summoner and scholar should be split up.

[Tex_Mex]

The main reason that people are so put off by the SMN aesthetic is that the class plays nothing like traditional summoners in Final Fantasy games. They weren't DoT classes, and their summons were nothing like the pets seen in FFXIV today.

SMN in Final Fantasy history has always been about massive burst damage from gigantic summoned creatures. I understand that this type of gameplay does not fit well into an MMO; however, I think the game would've been better off if they just skipped the SMN altogether. The class is nothing more than a clunky Pet/DoT class that doesn't fit well into the final fantasy universe.

I would prefer if they left the class as is, but just called it Arcanist (which is closer to what the class actually is). The class is not a summoner.

[FrejyaAthenes]

The main reason that people are so put off by the SMN aesthetic is that the class plays nothing like traditional summoners in Final Fantasy games. They weren't DoT classes, and their summons were nothing like the pets seen in FFXIV today.

SMN in Final Fantasy history has always been about massive burst damage from gigantic summoned creatures. I understand that this type of gameplay does not fit well into an MMO; however, I think the game would've been better off if they just skipped the SMN altogether. The class is nothing more than a clunky Pet/DoT class that doesn't fit well into the final fantasy universe.

I would prefer if they left the class as is, but just called it Arcanist (which is closer to what the class actually is). The class is not a summoner.

Which is weird because isn't that what all the endgame content is based around? You'd think the more traditional summoner style'd fit right in.

[Eloah]

The main reason that people are so put off by the SMN aesthetic is that the class plays nothing like traditional summoners in Final Fantasy games. They weren't DoT classes, and their summons were nothing like the pets seen in FFXIV today.

SMN in Final Fantasy history has always been about massive burst damage from gigantic summoned creatures. I understand that this type of gameplay does not fit well into an MMO; however, I think the game would've been better off if they just skipped the SMN altogether. The class is nothing more than a clunky Pet/DoT class that doesn't fit well into the final fantasy universe.

I would prefer if they left the class as is, but just called it Arcanist (which is closer to what the class actually is). The class is not a summoner.

Every job in the series differs from itself in some way from each entry to the next, depending on how the game is structured. But there is always one key aspect that stays the same, and for summoners that is having a summon. Red Mages aren't always the same, sometimes they are better physically, other times better magically, and sometimes are that games version of a Rune/Mystic Knight or Spell Fencer, but they usually always have Dualcast. Blue Mages too, usually they are mage-y, with high magic stats and low physical stats, but in 11 they were great physical attackers, but they still had Blue Magic. Some games even combine jobs, like Dancer/Geomancer/Dragoon (Mog) or Machinist/Dragoon (Edgar) in 6 or the Dancer/Bard (Songstress) and Ranger/Blue Mage (Gun Mage) in 10-2. You have to look at whether the job embodies the main aspect of itself, and in this case Summoner does.

Also the summons in this game are okay; if you think about it they play similar to the 10 and 13 summons where we have them do "basic" attacks to the enemies before unleashing their "big" attack. Now the one issue I do wish they would resolve is making the summons more versatile. Currently "everyone" says Garuda is the best pet, how dare you use one of the others, but that Ifritis situational and that Titan is just for soloing. I wish they would make it so each pet has something that made them unique, but, allowed them to be similar enough so that I could use any pet I prefer. Hopefully when more pets are released this will be fixed.

And lastly, having Egis in this game makes perfect sense within the games lore. If you think about it the Primals are formed by a massive amount of "people" "praying" to the god to summon them, their power and size dependant on the amount of people who summon them and the aether used to give them a physical form. That being said, your summoner is ONE person, who is able to give the aether a physical form. Could SE adjust the size of the Egis, maybe make them a bit bigger, but having the smaller versions makes sense if you think about how the actual Primal is summoned.

[FrejyaAthenes]

Every job in the series differs from itself in some way from each entry to the next, depending on how the game is structured. But there is always one key aspect that stays the same, and for summoners that is having a summon.
...
You have to look at whether the job embodies the main aspect of itself, and in this case Summoner does.

The difference here between the current summoner and the Summoners of old is the importance placed on them. Rydia, Dagger, Eiko and Yuna were all hybrid summoners, but their stories and gameplay still had an emphasis on their summoning abilities. Here the story attempts it, but it falls flat when in gameplay your still just an Arcanist with Fester and uglier familiars. Your skill/worth as a summoner isn't based around the power of your summons or the control you have over them, but your ability to place DoTs and keep them up over the course of battle while your summons just...float and do stuff of no concequence.

[FrejyaAthenes]

And lastly, having Egis in this game makes perfect sense within the games lore. If you think about it the Primals are formed by a massive amount of "people" "praying" to the god to summon them, their power and size dependant on the amount of people who summon them and the aether used to give them a physical form. That being said, your summoner is ONE person, who is able to give the aether a physical form. Could SE adjust the size of the Egis, maybe make them a bit bigger, but having the smaller versions makes sense if you think about how the actual Primal is summoned.

Out of curiousity, how far are you in the Manderville questline?

[Eloah]

Out of curiousity, how far are you in the Manderville questline?

If you are refering to Enkidu, I don't think that counts as an Egi/Primal, that's still debated even within the context of the side story. Plus look at the size of Enkidu compared to Gilgamesh, he is still smaller. And Gilgamesh is huge, gotta think he counts as more then one person for some things, like summoning a "Primal"..

[Eloah]

The difference here between the current summoner and the Summoners of old is the importance placed on them. Rydia, Dagger, Eiko and Yuna were all hybrid summoners, but their stories and gameplay still had an emphasis on their summoning abilities. Here the story attempts it, but it falls flat when in gameplay your still just an Arcanist with Fester and uglier familiars. Your skill/worth as a summoner isn't based around the power of your summons or the control you have over them, but your ability to place DoTs and keep them up over the course of battle while your summons just...float and do stuff of no concequence.

I do agree that the gameplay can fall a bit flat, since Summoners are just Arcanists with Fester. Hopefully this will change with Heavensward, having more abilities sould diversify them a bit more and make them feel a bit more Summon oriented. One change I would like to see is automatic ability swapping, depending on the pet you currently have out. I control my summons, on both Summoner and Scholar, but I use the expanded hotbar, since the pet hotbar is annoying. Anyway, I am only able to use Garuda and Ifrits abilities, not that Titans are needed right now, because each ability is seperate, but they all share specific cool downs. It would be nice if theabilities I use automatically changed depending on the pet I had out. I suppose I could try to macro them, but I see a lot of potential issues there.

One other thing to consider is this is a game with a Job System, and any game with a job system doesn't place an importance on the summons. All of the characters you mentioned are from games where the summons are intrigal to the story as well as the character(s), but those stories don't have jobs in them. Now I know 14's story has the Primals as a focus but they are only a story element not a charcter one. Games like 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, and 13, all have the summons as a character focus too. Now I never played 11, so I can't say anything about it, but I'm guessing summons were more of a side story and not character focused, similar to how it is in 14 right now.

Oh, also, on a tangent, while I understand why you put Eiko on that list, should she really be included? True she was a Summoner race wise, but she was oriented towards White Magic over Summons. But I suppose that could be me nitpicking. 9 is my favorite in the series.

[FrejyaAthenes]

I do agree that the gameplay can fall a bit flat, since Summoners are just Arcanists with Fester. Hopefully this will change with Heavensward, having more abilities sould diversify them a bit more and make them feel a bit more Summon oriented. One change I would like to see is automatic ability swapping, depending on the pet you currently have out. I control my summons, on both Summoner and Scholar, but I use the expanded hotbar, since the pet hotbar is annoying. Anyway, I am only able to use Garuda and Ifrits abilities, not that Titans are needed right now, because each ability is seperate, but they all share specific cool downs. It would be nice if the abilities I use automatically changed depending on the pet I had out. I suppose I could try to macro them, but I see a lot of potential issues there.

Agreed. I've been saying that summons should be treated as a stance system where having specific summons out grants certain buffs/abilities. Maybe someday.

[FrejyaAthenes]

Also the summons in this game are okay; if you think about it they play similar to the 10 and 13 summons where we have them do "basic" attacks to the enemies before unleashing their "big" attack. Now the one issue I do wish they would resolve is making the summons more versatile. Currently "everyone" says Garuda is the best pet, how dare you use one of the others, but that Ifritis situational and that Titan is just for soloing. I wish they would make it so each pet has something that made them unique, but, allowed them to be similar enough so that I could use any pet I prefer. Hopefully when more pets are released this will be fixed.

That I can agree on. To me the Summoner's greatest advantage should be the utility of having three to five different arsenals/characters/stances for a variety of situations, but the way summons work here doesn't encourage that. The summons themselves are meh and offer nothing to the team except a little extra dps.

[Edellis]

Hopefully, they'll eventually overhaul the summoner class to put more of their "oomph" into the summons you're using, instead of them basically just being an overglorified DOT.

I think earlier, they were thinking of adding more jobs per class, but somewhere it fell flat, and Summoner/Scholar became the only class with a branch.