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  1. #51
    Player
    syntaxlies's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
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    uldah
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    4,043
    Character
    Syntax Lies
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Leatherworker Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Coglin View Post
    why not ? In all MMOs bards are very fluent bow users.
    bards have also been known to use swords and daggers as secondary weapons, i wouldn't want glad to be bard either.
    (0)
    Last edited by syntaxlies; 09-10-2011 at 02:26 AM.

  2. #52
    Player

    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Gridania
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    Well, alot of classes typically use swords and daggers. I feel the thinking here is somewhat limited due to the armoury system.

    With you weapon related mentaly your trying to use to justify your logic, you feel that its more likely a bard uses a wand or magical sceptor or cudgel then a bow or a sword? I am unfamiliar with anywhere or any lore where they use the previous, but I can recall many many times I have heard of bards using swords and bows.
    (0)

  3. #53
    Player
    Zalasta's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    63
    Character
    Ilskyia Fhey
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    I just can't see THM being moved to "White Mage".
    Why would they give CON the Curaga and Raise line of spells if they were intended to be given to THM's job? Sounds kind of silly to me.
    It makes more sense for CON to move to White Mage at this point in time due to the last updates CON received.
    That's not to say that THM will go to Black Mage. You still have Dark Knight or Time Mage, or various other things a THM could move in to.
    (4)

  4. #54
    Player
    Umo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    799
    Character
    Umo Heima
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Klive View Post
    The archer only has one role though. Adding more dps abilities to a dps class? What would the point be? You can do that by leveling lancer or something and pulling their abilities. Archer is unique in the fact it is already specialized as DPS. You can not specialize it further, so adding new elements would be ideal.
    This argument doesn't follow your own quote...
    Quote Originally Posted by Klive View Post
    Rather than being advanced versions of classes, we would like players to think of jobs as specialized playing styles optimized for partying. While playing as a particular job will render you unable to equip certain actions of other classes, you will be compensated with access to exclusive actions, which can be acquired through quests.
    Almost all DPS classes are already specialized as DPS. They can change their playing style (even their role) by equipping another class' abilities. Job system will prevent that, enhancing differentiation between roles on determined situations. It will make you want to have that exclusive actions in order to do your best on your role (Tank, DPS, Healing, Support), actions that don't come from another class.
    BRD for ARC? C'mon...

    On topic:
    Quote Originally Posted by Zalasta View Post
    I just can't see THM being moved to "White Mage".
    Why would they give CON the Curaga and Raise line of spells if they were intended to be given to THM's job? Sounds kind of silly to me.
    It makes more sense for CON to move to White Mage at this point in time due to the last updates CON received.
    That's not to say that THM will go to Black Mage. You still have Dark Knight or Time Mage, or various other things a THM could move in to.
    ^This.
    (0)
    English is not my mother language. I'm trying to do my best, so please don't be rude...

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  5. #55
    Player
    Klive's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    Character
    Klynwilf Spellrifter
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 60
    The Final Fantasy is an old franchise as well as its job system. Veteran FF players know the jobs and system since they have been left intact since basically forever. The system changes, but the core iconic classes have always been left alone. Since this thread is focused on the two of three basic icon mages of the FF franchise, I'll focus on them.

    In every FF the white mage is a divine healer. It has been give non-spell abilities like pray and martyr, plus spells like the defining attack spell holy. The white mage is even classified as a priest in a few games, like FFT. So when I say the white mage is a holy, divine, or godly, this should come to no shock.

    In every FF the black mage is an elemental offensive mage. It had a few "dark" spells and drains, but is not true for every FF. The elemental nukes are the only consistent unchanging spell they get. The tie to the elements even shows up in many FF with abilities they get like geomancy and elemental seal. So it is no far stretch to say they are elemental based.

    Why do I bring this up?

    This is a final fantasy game, a long running franchise, that has ionic classes that have helped define it since forever. I fail to see SE changing their ways for this game.

    Now lets look at a well-known and recently remade FF game that is known for its job system. I use this FF due to the fact that I've heard many people make comparisons and it has a job requirement system. I'm not saying this game will copy it, but SE is not going to be changing core elements of the job system.

    Final Fantasy Tactics

    White mage is called a priest and has the description...
    "The Priest controls holy magic by borrowing soul power. Often uses recuperative and support magic, 'White Magic"
    or the newer version
    "A warrior who taps into the powers of the divine, using White Magicks to cast spells of recovery and protection."

    Black mage is called wizard and has the description...
    "The Wizard controls the elements which make up this world. Often uses attack magic, 'Black Magic.:
    or the newer version
    "A warrior who uses Black Magicks to channel elemental powers into powerful offensive spells"

    Now let look at the job tree real quick. (not the full tree)
    Chemist--> Priest --> Oracle/Mystic --> Mediator
    Chemist --> Wizard --> Time Mage --> Summoner

    Oracle is "The Oracle has control over elements of life itself, through the manipulation of Yin and Yang"

    Summoner is "The Summoner who can call illusionary monsters, spirits of the highest rank. Uses 'Summon Magic', a special contract with the spirits."

    Wait, a divine path and an elemental path?

    SE is not going to change the core elements of the job system or of their iconic White and Black mages. They have been around since FF1. The white mage is not going to become elemental, suddenly, nor is the black mage going divine. The point of playing FF14 is to play a FF online. Not another game. In FF the White Mage is divine and Black Mage is elemental.

    I fail to see how conjurers, aka elemenalists, aka druids, (yes, they are called that if you look at what they are called in the other languages: ie. Deutsches = Druide and Français = Élémentaliste) are generous healers? The conjurer quests are all about appeasing the elements that are fickle and kill EVERYTHING that annoys them in the forest. All of Gridinia, that is lead by the elemental appeasing conjures, is isolationist and xenophobic for fear of elementals being angered. All the quests for the guilds in Gradinia, lancer and archer, involve the conjures and keeping elements happy. This means healers?

    THM are holy and are described "within whose hallowed walls are said to reside powers of life, death, and the beyond."
    The main Ul'dah story quests has people trying to convince the THM to resurrect someone. If that isn't divine healing, what is?

    The DEV team has already put out a list of jobs in that interview (previously posted). They would be stupid to put jobs out that are not coming out anytime soon. Build community hype about jobs and then say sorry, those were for next year.

    I have provided a lot of time and research on this thread, take what you will. In the end, Conjurer is still elemental and THM is still divine. The white mage has always been holy in the past FF games and the black mage elemental. If SE changes that tradition, I'll be very surprised.
    (5)
    Last edited by Klive; 09-12-2011 at 06:26 AM.
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  6. #56
    Player
    Klive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    Character
    Klynwilf Spellrifter
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 60
    http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/2011/03...er-white-mage/

    FYI: I'm not alone in my views :P
    (0)
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  7. #57
    Player
    Zalasta's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    63
    Character
    Ilskyia Fhey
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Klive View Post
    And that's fine, you're allowed to have your views. By that link that you posted, they could be an offensive white mage at best. There's still the questioning behind giving CON the curaga and raise spells...

    CON can still get Black Mage. They have the elemental spells, which, as you said, are defining spells of a Black Mage.

    At the moment, THM is a very offensive class. For party play, it would only make sense to build on that. But that doesn't mean they will be the Black Mage.
    THM is a good single target healer, but CON outshines them in group heals.

    Meh, SE can do what ever the hell they want with their classes. I'll just play the job that suits my style best.

    Speculation ftl...
    (1)
    Last edited by Zalasta; 09-12-2011 at 09:45 AM.

  8. #58
    Player
    Catapult's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Lotus Gardens
    Posts
    3,240
    Character
    Thal Icebound
    World
    Ravana
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    The irony is that Conjurer recently getting the group healing spells and the strengthening of the Thaumaturge are the only things that doesn't add up... unless you consider that they may be looking to create a clear difference between White Mages and Thaumaturges once the job is unlocked. Likewise with clear behavioral differences between Conjurers and Black Mages.

    This creates the opportunity for intra-city conflict, which is a magnificent story-building tool.

    Also, have a chat to the conjurer's guarding the Stillglade Fane in the clearing - one speaks of there once being rituals designed to anger the elementals and her lack of understanding why that would be.
    I smell a revival of such practices, much like with the Grand Companies. The Conjurers would be at incredible odds with such Black Mages in Gridania and that is part of the point.

    That way we have both a protective and an offensive role on both the divine and elemental trees.
    (1)

  9. #59
    Player
    Beorhtel_Fet's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    Character
    Fetima From'ramuh
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    I myself think that they will probably just move abilities around in 1.20 or 1.21 and give the elemental spells to Thaumaturge and maybe the dia and banish spells to Conjurer so that they dont really have that problem when the job system comes out they more or less said it was coming with the info on class balancing saying they were going to shift abilities around from class to class i also think the same may happen between Marauder and Gladiator for a couple of abilities to make MRD more DDish and GLA more tankish and then give new spells to WHM and BLM like say give WHM holy and regen spells and Meteor and AoE elemental spells to BLM and make the others single target
    (1)

  10. #60
    Player
    Beorhtel_Fet's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    Character
    Fetima From'ramuh
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    To clarify what i meant a little this is what I'm talking about:

    Classes

    Actions will undergo major revisions, along with both the underlying mechanics and conditions.

    By major revisions, not only do we mean the tweaking of effects and potency of existing actions - we will work from the ground up to redesign and reassign actions based on clearly identified class roles.
    (1)

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