Petition to change "A Tankless Job" Achievment Chain

[Grimmel]

While I applaud Square for giving tanks mounts for their hard work, the way these achievements/mounts are orchestrated is all wrong.

Tanks are still scarce when joining Duty Finder for Dungeons or doing runs to complete a relic (Chim, Hydra, and HM Primals). It can still take over 30 mins for a tank to show up and for you to be able to commence the duty.

When I heard way back that tanks would finally be getting mounts for working hard to do what they do best; I thought it'd be a tad bit better than the system we have now.

I know this has been out for some time and there have been countless threads in the past asking for change, but I'm hoping something changes or is done differently when Dark Knight gets introduced and possibly receives a similar type of achievement chain.

Small Edit; I put into bold what the Achievements should count towards.

Having these achievements only count towards end game doesn't help boost the tank population at all, all it does is reward existing tanks with end game FC's and statics. If the achievements were to change to include all dungeons and raids then more people would pick up the sword and shield or Axe and try to learn the job.

[Eye_Gore]

So what is the change you want to see?

[TheBigEvil]

I suggest that they make it retroactive like they did for frontlines... To me I think its kinda BS that they wanted to give something to motivate tanks but then we got to work for it.. yea we get better queue times but that doesnt alway mean good groups...

[Ophie-Mio]

I always found the fact that WHM and the tanks got special mounts kinda...I dunno, a bit favoritism to me. Especially because the whm one is given to you at 30 and the tank ones are given past 50.

I wish the other jobs had job-specific mounts. Why give Tanks incentives such as special mounts? To have them in a queue? Trust me, it doesn't make the queue any nicer. All jobs should get it.

[kyuven]

I always found the fact that WHM and the tanks got special mounts kinda...I dunno, a bit favoritism to me. Especially because the whm one is given to you at 30 and the tank ones are given past 50.

This seemed a bit perplexing to me too. I think it might be a consequence of WHMs not really gaining any new mechanics when slapping on their soul crystal.
BRD gets songs
WAR gets defiance
PLD gets the oaths
SMN and SCH get the pets
NIN gets ninjutsu
DRG gets jumps
BLM gets their walls

WHM, and MNK are the only ones that don't seem to have some sort of mechanic specific to their job, instead just getting different or enhanced versions of spells they already have (even Regen is technically just a single target version of Medica II, which all CNJs get). Hell, WHM doesn't even have as many worthwhile crossclass skills either, with only 7 total and only 3 of real, regular use.
So even though it REALLY didn't turn out that way, there was a likely a concern at some point that WHM was "unremarkable" compared to other jobs. This is, of course, not true...but the mount was already made so yeah.

[Ashkendor]

I wish the other jobs had job-specific mounts. Why give Tanks incentives such as special mounts? To have them in a queue? Trust me, it doesn't make the queue any nicer. All jobs should get it.

So that people that have tanks will actually play them. Why should we get incentive to play DPS instead? There's more than enough DPS out there. What the queue (and even party finder) pretty much always hurts for is tanks and healers. It's a way to reward dedicated tanks for being such. Don't get me wrong, I think that having endgame content only count toward the mount is kind of silly. Having duties like the relic reborn trials and such count toward it would help, even if the total amount of duties you needed for the achievement was raised.

This seemed a bit perplexing to me too. I think it might be a consequence of WHMs not really gaining any new mechanics when slapping on their soul crystal.

The only thing I can think of is that CNJ was the only healing class upon release, so added incentive was given to play one. SCH only becomes at healer at level 30, and I don't even think Arcanist was a thing back then.

This and from what I gathered from other threads. Tanks are considered prima donna aholes that hold everyone hostage in dungeons so they can get gear and threaten parties to leave and tell them good luck finding another tank if they don't get their way. I guess people don't want that label either so they stay away from tanking.

You took that entire thing way too personally. It's a stereotype, not a written in stone truth. Dragoons are often stereotyped as hopeless amateurs that spend more time on the floor than fighting the boss. Do I think that applies to all Dragoons? Hell no. In fact, I know some very skilled ones. Have I met some like that? Absolutely, but I've met plenty of derpy people from every class. Nobody's saying that the 'diva tank' stereotype applies to every single tank out there, but "tank entitlement" is a real thing. The fact of the matter is that a tank is way more likely to attempt to hold a group hostage in order to get their way than a DPS is. I mean, it'd be laughable if a DPS tried it (I've seen it, it really is). DPS ragequits halfway through the dungeon? Who cares, there's 85 more of them in the queue. If a tank does it, it really can leave groups waiting for 20 minutes for a new one.

In any case, I'm not even really sure why you brought that up here. It should've been left in the other thread where it belongs instead of derailing this guy's thread when he's making a suggestion to improve the tanking achievements.

[Grimmel]

So what is the change you want to see?

It kind of says it in there in the second line. :\ To broaden it to four man dungeons and the first few raids for relic.

[Hiruke]

It kind of says it in there in the second line. :\ To broaden it to four man dungeons and the first few raids for relic.

It does not say it on the second line. You might say the second line implies it, but when you're asking for someone to change something, you should use more clear language. It doesn't say it until the last line, which is not what you bolded.

No amount of achievements is going to make people want to tank. Many people aren't capable of playing dps to the minimum required level to succeed in a dungeon. Even less can do so with tank. A sub par dps might get carried. And is easily replaced. A sub par tank is just a nightmare. No one wants to deal with a bad tank, and not everyone is good enough to be a tank (or believes they are, or want to deal with all the added responsibility), etc. etc.

The real mistake was believing a 2 tank 2 healer 4 dps setup made sense (basically implying that there are as many dps as there are healers and tanks, which is obviously untrue... dps heavily outweight tanks and healers combined). I think how PLD and WAR work together is wonderful, but realistically it would have been better to get 5-6 dps into the standard 8 person setup. Or made the standard full party 10 people instead (making the light party 5 people). Increasing the number of people you need for anything would bring its own problems, though, I imagine.

[Zfz]

I don't think temporary shifts in job population resulting from a reward will solve anything. What really needs to be done is to design the Dark Knight to have a play style that attracts people who otherwise don't feel like playing the Paladin and the Warrior. We need to shift population permanently into the tank queue by attracting people to play the Dark Knight as their main job.

There's little we can do about the fear that some players feel towards taking up a tank job, but job design is something over which SE has full control.

[HaelseMikiro]

with the addition of job quests and new traits/skills from leveling to 60, I'm hoping/expecting to see changes to WAR/PLD that make them more fun and desirable to play