Dear Gilgamesh Preemade.

[Mardel]

Achievements, and lack of player base.

[Liptonicetea]

Let's be real the pvp in this game sucks, wolves den has no ranking system, and frontlines has all the achievements which is basically the only reason the premade exists. I don't think anyone from the premade ever claimed to be a god-tier pvp player. It's not like we're going into frontlines rubbing our hands maniacally and circle-jerking about how good we are for crushing pugs, we're just grinding out achievements.

[Houston009]

As expected, oh well. :L

If only Wolves' Den didn't have achievements...

[Holicccc]

Wait are these the frontline try hards? Lol get in the den so I can show you a thing or two <3

[MohShuvuu]

Wait are these the frontline try hards? Lol get in the den so I can show you a thing or two <3

The pot calling the kettle black.

[Synnovus]

As expected, oh well. :L

If only Wolves' Den didn't have achievements...

The difference between Wolves' Den and Frontlines is that the former has been out for a significantly longer period of time. Most of the players who are interested in the achievements have attained the majority of their points when it was popular or in the lull period afterwards through win-trading. In terms of time spent:achievement points gained, Frontlines is far more rewarding.

Even looking at raw PvP experience and marks the gains are far greater from Frontlines as well. We're capable of taking up to 8 friends (more if we're lucky) into the same match and reap equal rewards. Even assuming Wolves' Den queues were popular again we'd be queuing into each other more often than not -- not to say that this would be a bad thing.. but in terms of equal-opportunity gains from our side Frontlines is more appealing.

Oh, I see! There was miscommunication in the Twitch and in-game chat. Sorry about that! Wolves' Den is fun, though, so you're always welcome to give it a go.

Putting aside the horrible queue times that normally accompany Wolves' Den, a lot of us simply don't have a reason to queue for it anymore. As I mentioned above, our rewards:time ratio is far superior in Frontlines than Wolves' Den.

Also as Layla mentioned, PvP in this game is kind of disappointing. Even ignoring the obvious flaws brought on by the game engine and latency, there is still little to no incentive to queue for it. There is no ladder system (which is normally the draw to Arena-style combat), most of the tangible rewards have either been attained or aren't interesting (or are extremely grind-oriented), and there are other in-game alternatives (mostly Frontlines) that offer more interesting rewards.

That's not to say we aren't interested in Wolves' Den.. it's just convincing people to log off of Diablo 3/World of Warcraft/League of Legends/etc. for raid is hard enough as is, much less queuing for Wolves' Den instead.

[ZanzhizExaverion]

If it's disappointing why are you ruining 48 other players experience? To drive more people away?

You have ADS, you can't use horses on other GCs, what's the point if it's "just for the achievements"?

[Liptonicetea]

Because there are 1000 wins and 5000 kills achievements?

[ZanzhizExaverion]

Because there are 1000 wins and 5000 kills achievements?

So then you must be working on all 10 Zodiacs, correct?

[Synnovus]

So then you must be working on all 10 Zodiacs, correct?

Some people are. The vast majority of us are just going for the 5000 kill achievement and the associated title.