[Frontline]Would you vote dismiss someone. . .

[Xenosan]

. . . wearing ilvl55 gear (lol 3,000 HP == Food)

. . . ignoring party instruction?

Where do you draw the line?

Should FFXIV even have such a bar? (I don't play other MMOs so I don't know how those work either)

I come from a competitive Total War and Battlefield background, kicking is standard procedure, you don't win unless you trim the fat (and they don't learn to play until you give them the boot).

Granted in BF they are only removed from squad, not the match entirely. TW though is a different story, losing your clan is like losing your ability to play.

. . . Where does SE stand on this?

. . . /SeanConneryVoice: "What are you prepared to do!?"

[CeveArthu]

Frontline is a joke if you want to play something competitive, it was mainly designed for people who don't really care about pvp, by people who have demonstrated time and time again that they don't really care for pvp and grants pve rewards

Besides, every 2 losses that i55 guy takes grants him an i80 item anyway, so eventually it corrects himself, its not nearly as bad as the healers who are i80 only have 3.5k hp

[Red_Wolf]

Kicking people for their gear is elitist and wrong. Everyone has to start somewhere.

(Unless they're missing gear slots altogether...)

[Blubbers]

I would say it depends on the gear situation. If they've obviously just hit 50, and you see every couple matches they have a new piece of i70 gear, then at least they're trying and I wouldn't kick them, they could potentially be a valuable team mate later on down the road.

Ignoring party instructions, and those that have been doing many matches and haven't upgraded their gear are another case though.

I had a stone vigil NM yesterday with a healer who had the i1 sailor glamour chest, and i15 pants and passed when i40 caster pants dropped. Some people are definitely a lost cause.

[Hyrist]

To be fair.

I started in frontline on Hyrist as a an ilvl 50ish Paladin and worked my way up to where I am now with most if not all my pieces above ilvl90.

It's actually faster to progress pve that way too as you're not forced to hit the tier wall to get better gear.

I'd say, if they become a repeat problem and don't show improvement, then warning your crew before kicking them is a good idea.

Otherwise, give the newbies a chance to invest.

[Xenosan]

[QUOTE=Red_Wolf;2796958]...Everyone has to start somewhere./QUOTE]

For argument's sake, what if I said BS to this idea..

Starting somewhere? How about Praet and Castrum grinding like the rest of us had to back then. Easy tomes with the roulette. HM primals give i70 weapons better then the i48 cobalt crap and vintage I see on a regular basis.

Are they really 'starting out'? /airquotes

Or are they trying to leap frog game content.

All for the sake of argument.

If they've obviously just hit 50, and you see every couple matches they have a new piece of i70 gear,

If they just hit 50, they probably don't have their PVE rotation figured out, let alone PVP rotation. That's just way too green. The idea these people could not care about how poor hey performance in FL, it just baffles me.

[Hyrist]

It's nice to be the one who stays current and make commentary at those who aren't where you are.

That kind of elitism baffles me.

PvP and PvE rotations are mutually exclusive, you don't have to learn one to learn another. And if they're learning, then they're learning. This game does not put empasis on heated competition in PvP. It's not a PvP-centric game. But if they're making an effor to learn it PvP as they go along, who are you to dictate how they should advance their character after reaching fifty? Frontlines provides a good alternative to Pre grinding and it begins to teach you the importance of teamwork to boot. I'd say it's much better training than sitting there repeating the same easy mobs over and over again being carried by a bunch of people who are either Spirit bonding or going for quick tomes.

Again, I advanced Paladin through PvP on a brand new character. Perhaps they're trying to do the same? Try not to look down on people so hard, it'll give you a creek in the neck.

[Atreus]

So you stepped into it before reaching i80?

[StouterTaru]

Starting somewhere? How about Praet and Castrum grinding like the rest of us had to back then. Easy tomes with the roulette. HM primals give i70 weapons better then the i48 cobalt crap and vintage I see on a regular basis.

Are they really 'starting out'? /airquotes

Or are they trying to leap frog game content.

Both are 20 soldiery/run. That means a full set of ilvl90 gear (excluding weapon) in a mere 270 runs. Frontlines gives twice as many, plus 20 poetics, plus wolf marks.

[Xenosan]

Try not to look down on people so hard

Elitism would be actually enforcing such expectations in match.

I'm not.

This is discussion; the devil's advocate (hence the 'for argument sake'), asking hard questions.

This game does not put empasis on heated competition in PvP. It's not a PvP-centric game.

This seems to be reason apparently. PVE you join a raid not knowing your role or undergeared, you're getting booted (or at the very least, flamed until you wish you hadn't shown up).

But FL gets a pass because it's lolPvP who cares.

Edit addendum:

@StouterTaru

There a plenty of ways to get easy BiS twinks for FL. It takes 5 minutes to get a relic weapon, and for a lot of classes (whm) it's BiS. If they just hit 50 they probably have a 50,000 stash of GC seals that can be used to buy the expensive mats for Wolfram/Saurian gear