Dear All Bards,

[Snugglebutt]

People are using wod as an example, it also happens in all forms of endgame.

If want to whine about bards not playing songs in coils, make a thread about that. This one clearly states at the start it is about playing in labyrinth, ST and WoD and was specific in mentioning only Foes and Battle Voice. All those places Foes is not required, ever...outside of clearing it slightly quicker. So you don't get to clear the entire place few minutes quicker...so? If you need songs you will get them, but this thread is whining about something not needed at all.

In coils it is 'needed' sometimes, trials too but in the examples given by the OP it is not. If thread was made about that (which was not) then would have a more valuable discussion but whining about Foes in WoD...really? Battle Voice is ESPECIALLY not needed in the places described by the OP, with MP regen there is more validity in bringing it up in places like labyrinth, ST or WoD (which ironically was not mentioned by the OP in the original comment) but even then only if have bad healers or really bad players which die constantly being a drain on the healers.

I actually play Foes, MP regen in WoD but I see zero reason to whine about those that do not, the place is not hard, Foes is certainly not needed and that is especially the case for Battle Voice, MP regen is very rarely needed.

If going to whine about something try to at least whine about something worthwhile. I have zero problems with other bards relaxing and taking it easy in there, why? Because it is easy and their songs are not required to clear it 99% of the time. If the groups are struggling to clear the content you can bet that bards will play the songs needed to clear it but when is not needed, don't whine about it.

[TheWaywardWind]

Snip

Just because something "isn't needed" doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Battle Voice + Foe's can significantly speed up the time of many boss/trash encounters, and the point is that there is absolutely zero justification for not using it.

It is really poor habit building to main a Bard and decide that you're not going to utilize some of the most powerful support abilities in the game because you don't deem it "necessary." Don't want to play songs? Great, don't play a bard. Play something else.

By your logic, no single healer should cast protect or stoneskin because "it isn't needed." The only time where it is absolutely "needed" is end game raids like coil, so hey, why bother, right?

Buffs and debuffs, whether or not they are absolutely "Needed" are still there for a reason; they're there to make content easier.

Outwardly shrugging off making the encounter easier on everyone by speeding it up because you don't deem it "necessary" is ultimately poor game playing, muchacho.

[Accolade]

Just because something "isn't needed" doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Battle Voice + Foe's can significantly speed up the time of many boss/trash encounters, and the point is that there is absolutely zero justification for not using it.

It is really poor habit building to main a Bard and decide that you're not going to utilize some of the most powerful support abilities in the game because you don't deem it "necessary." Don't want to play songs? Great, don't play a bard. Play something else.

By your logic, no single healer should cast protect or stoneskin because "it isn't needed." The only time where it is absolutely "needed" is end game raids like coil, so hey, why bother, right?

Buffs and debuffs, whether or not they are absolutely "Needed" are still there for a reason; they're there to make content easier.

He is right.

[RathSkybreaker]

He is right.

except, if you think protect in stone skin is needed for clearing WoD you're an idiot. You can literally spam 1 button as a dps class, run 6 scholars with rouse, and 3 tanks who can hit 1 2 3 and clear that dungeon. Oh, and you need to be able to tether cerberus and not get hit by the red circles. Nothing about any of the iterations of CT--> WoD have ever been nor will they ever be even slightly difficult. No one cares if you want bards to cast foes, especially if they are only in there for the 2nd boss for the BiS body.

[Snugglebutt]

-snip-

Being needed or in this case not needed is relevant. If something is needed to clear that content almost all bards would play songs to clear it. If it is not needed, you are in no position to demand they play it just because you can't be bothered to spend a few more minutes across the entire raid period clearing it.

If it is easy content (which it is) then bards can choose to play or not play songs and if you do not like it then too bad, so sad but that's your problem not theirs. If it is hard content then almost all bards will play songs when needed to help clear it. I am betting your one of those people who forces everyone to skip cutscene's and pull every mob in dungeon runs even when others tell you in the group that they do not want to do such.

If your going to whine about playing songs then at least whine about playing when needed and not whenever the hell you feel like they should do it, especially when it is not required at all. If do not like that then make your own bard and play songs 24/7 when not required to your hearts content but if it is not needed then so what? Get over it. In statics for some EX trials maybe and coils then sure they need to play songs often but in WoD? No they don't.

Just do your job instead of worrying about them speeding up your clearance time. They unlike you might not be in such a rush and that is their right to take it easy on easy content. You do not get to dictate differently...not in easy content like Lab, ST or WoD. If a bard plays songs to speed up the run in such places that's fine, I do so myself but there is no reason to whine about bards who do not...not when in places like Lab, ST or WoD or even simple 4 man dungeons etc.

[TheWaywardWind]

snip.

And again, look back to my other post:
"By your logic, no single healer should cast protect or stoneskin because "it isn't needed." The only time where it is absolutely "needed" is end game raids like coil, so hey, why bother, right?

Buffs and debuffs, whether or not they are absolutely "Needed" are still there for a reason; they're there to make content easier.

Outwardly shrugging off making the encounter easier on everyone by speeding it up because you don't deem it "necessary" is ultimately poor game playing."

It's ironic and hypocritical you accuse be of not being able to be bothered to spend "a few extra minutes" when you can't be bothered to spend the extra four seconds to activate two abilities that will save us all that time.

[Snugglebutt]

-snip-

If a buff is not needed then the person who casts it normally is under no obligation to do so. On hard content which it is needed then they should make use of all their skills required to complete the content, but you and Accolade do not get to dictate that everyone must play with every skill in perfect rotations and perfect timing for all content especially easy content like ones you mentioned in the OP. If they do not need to play perfectly or play the skills you want when you want it then you are in no position to demand they do...if they did need to do so they would do so but in this situation they do not so get over yourself and just worry about doing your job instead.

[Accolade]

Who said anything about a perfect rotation. Were talking about using your available skills to help the situation.

Also this made me laugh a lot:

if they did need to do so they would do so but in this situation they do not so

[Snugglebutt]

Who said anything about a perfect rotation. Were talking about using your available skills to help the situation.

It is exactly the same thing. Just like the OPs hypothetical situation put to me.

In all three cases it is doing something not needed to help speed up your run, that's all it is and perfect rotations is an extension of that very same stance. In the case of hard content putting in more effort and playing better is more important but in easy content like the OP listed it is not and people should not be forced by you to apply hardcore raid play styles to non-hardcore content as long as the content is being cleared. You do not get to dictate differently on easy non-hardcore content like such places mentioned by the OP outside of such things such as statics of PF parties.

As I said I play such songs but even I have the decency to understand I should not demand other bards play such songs when such songs are not required at all. They are not part of my static, we are not doing hardcore content and we are not in a PF using predetermined rules. If a bard wants to play songs during easy non-hardcore content in order to speed up the run that's fine, I do such myself...but it also fine if they do not provided it is not required to clear it. Get off your high horses and stop demanding others conform to your play rules when the content does not require they do so in any way whatsoever.

If it is easy content let others take is easier as long as the DPS>DPS's, the Healers>Heal, the Tank's>Tank if the content gets cleared then that is all that matters. On hard content where more effort is required...then and only then should you push them to be better so that as a group that content can be cleared. But on easy content? Sorry, but get over yourselves and just do your job instead of worrying about theirs especially when they are doing their job good enough to clear that easy content in the first place.

[Accolade]

demand they play it just because you can't be bothered to spend a few more minutes across the entire raid period clearing it.

But you have the skill sitting there on your action bar... why wait a few minutes longer, if you just have to press a single skill ONCE every so often. It sounds like your the one "that cant be bothered" utilzing all skills at your disposal.

Edit: Bah waywardWind got inb4 me