Question about FCOB raid setups

[Dyne_Fellpool]

For those of you doing FCOB:

Wouldn't swapping out the Bard for a 2nd Ninja and running PLD/WAR/WHM/SCH/MNK/NIN/NIN/BLM allow you to do a lot more dps with plenty of TP to go around via double Goads?
I mean like NIN A goads NIN B + Monk, and NIN B goads NIN A + the tank.

Or would there be MP issues without Mage's Ballad being available?

It just seems like you could get a lot more raid dps this way even without Foe Requiem, and I'm curious if anyone does this.

[SirTaint]

For those of you doing FCOB:

Wouldn't swapping out the Bard for a 2nd Ninja and running PLD/WAR/WHM/SCH/MNK/NIN/NIN/BLM allow you to do a lot more dps with plenty of TP to go around via double Goads?
I mean like NIN A goads NIN B + Monk, and NIN B goads NIN A + the tank.

Or would there be MP issues without Mage's Ballad being available?

It just seems like you could get a lot more raid dps this way even without Foe Requiem, and I'm curious if anyone does this.

Many ways to skin a cat. We run NIN,DRG,BRD,BLM. The NIN compliments the DRG,BRD,WAR. The DRG compliments the BRD. The BRD compliments the BLM. The WAR compliments the PLD,NIN.

The nice thing about the BRD is if someone dies they can Paeon/Ballad and save the run. For T13 you'll want some ballad either way.

[Tex_Mex]

The most common raid setups are 2 melee, 1 caster, 1 BRD. This is because of a few main reasons:
1) MP usage is a common problem for healers in FCoB, making the BRD very useful for sustain.
2) TP usage for melee DPS is sky high in FCoB due to the fights having very little down time. This again makes BRD very useful.
3) Caster LB is very helpful in a couple of the turns, making one caster helpful.
4) The cube in T11 is resistant to physical DPS, making one caster helpful here.
5) FCoB fights tend to be very melee friendly in their mechanics, making a second melee DPS helpful.
6) More than 2 melee can make the area around the boss very crowded, increasing the difficulty in some fights.

My raid follows this logic:
DRG, MNK, BRD, BLM
This is because:
1) DRG is great with any party that has a BRD
2) High MNK dps as well as dragon kick for the int debuff
3) BLM is currently significantly better than SMN by a decent margin, making it preferable
4) BRD helps a lot for TP and MP regen

Trading out a DRG for a NIN is very common due to the solid utility and similar DPS output they bring. Also, trading out BLM for SMN can be done without much trouble, though they require a bit more skill to play and really lack in the burst AoE department. Dropping the MNK requires that parties have a bit more HP since they will not have access to the 10% intelligence debuff.

All that being said, there are some groups who have great success with different compositions, though those comps require more skill from the group and allow less room for errors. All of FCoB is completable with other comps than the 2 melee, 1 caster, 1 BRD, but they tend to be less optimal overall.

[Ooshima]

For T13 you'll want some ballad either way.

Nope, if no one dies, team doesn't eat too much unnecessary dmg and your WHM doesn't suck in MP management, and your DPS is good enough to push Phase 2 (depends on how you do it - some team let the boss hover around 53% and kill the 3rd add and immediately phase the boss, some team just #yolo and whack as hard as they can, the 3rd add spawns during DB and they kill there after), technically you don't need any Paeon as long as you have a NIN, and you don't need ballad.

[Tex_Mex]

Nope, if no one dies, team doesn't eat too much unnecessary dmg and your WHM doesn't suck in MP management, and your DPS is good enough to push Phase 2 (depends on how you do it - some team let the boss hover around 53% and kill the 3rd add and immediately phase the boss, some team just #yolo and whack as hard as they can, the 3rd add spawns during DB and they kill there after), technically you don't need any Paeon as long as you have a NIN, and you don't need ballad.

i loled, If 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 things are covered. And if everyone in your party is highly skilled, then you don't need ballad. Based on this, 95% of people will need some ballad lol. Congrats to the 5% who do not.

[Ooshima]

i loled, If 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 things are covered. And if everyone in your party is highly skilled, then you don't need ballad. Based on this, 95% of people will need some ballad lol. Congrats to the 5% who do not.

Thanks for the congratulations.

[Tex_Mex]

Thanks for the congratulations.

You're welcome!

[ChaozK]

Not needing ballad doesnt seem to be that unusual, i dont think its the top 5% only or something. However id argue tp song is in high demand, double goad does not seem to be enough to serve 5 tp users as well as paeon does (2 tanks + 3 melees or 2 tanks 2 melees 1 bard)-

You can sort of do it but there usually will be some downtime on tp for at least 1 player if not 2 or more.

[Ooshima]

Not needing ballad doesnt seem to be that unusual, i dont think its the top 5% only or something. However id argue tp song is in high demand, double goad does not seem to be enough to serve 5 tp users as well as paeon does (2 tanks + 3 melees or 2 tanks 2 melees 1 bard)-

You can sort of do it but there usually will be some downtime on tp for at least 1 player if not 2 or more.

Yup, no ballad is actually more common than no paeon. Requiring Paeon or not actually depends on group DPS/kill speed. The faster the group deals with things, the less resource starved they are as the fight passes.

For T10, Paeon is definitely needed if your fight extends beyond 6 mins, T11 as well. But 12 and 13 have enough break points for natural recovery (for T13, unless your melees never have to do any Earthshakers) so it largely depends on group performance.

[Tex_Mex]

Our group is still in the progression phase (as are many) so we still need both. We will continue to need both until our gear gets better.