The Unspoken Rudeness

[Elusana_Celah]

I notice there is a significant amount of people who will join clear/farm parties for difficult content such as T9 who have absolutely no idea what they are doing. They then accuse you of being elitist / rude to them when you are like, "Why are you in a clear/farm party if you don't know what you're doing?"

I know people need to learn but when I learn content I create practice parties or join any existing practice parties and that is really what I did. I chugged away at those groups judgement free until I felt really comfortable and shot for my clear afterwards.

There is content in this game that you really can't just 'join' and 'get it' right away and perform well. Some people can learn fast while others need a lot of tries but until you feel comfortable that you can pull your own weight, why are you joining farms/clears?

I usually join practice parties for stuff I'm good at in order to help people out. I really love helping people learn things it's one of my passions to be a community player but you have to understand that I also need a break from wiping so when I want to just go win with a group of people who also know how to win in order to relieve stress or just get some loot from a boss that I dedicated a lot of time to learning, I can't because I must continue to be held back by people who have not the faintest idea what they are doing.

It's not fair to me or other people who know the content. We did our time wiping, let us band together and win instead. If something says clear/farm and you are not 100% confident in your abilities that you can clear it, don't join out of respect. I'm not talking about simple human errors that people make. I hate people who ragequit out cuz someone made an honest mistake. But when I make a mistake I own up to it right away to reassure the party it won't happen again and I understand what I did wrong. If I'm having an off day I will leave out of respect for them.

I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this but I feel that this is an epidemic that is plaguing my server.

Some replies I'm not interested in hearing that I know people will make, "This is why I run things with people I know." or "This is why I have my static." Yeah I get it. I still don't know enough people who are good players AND have good attitudes that I can tolerate being around to run stuff together. Good for you that you have connections to get stuff done. It doesn't change the reason for my post and is entirely irrelevant as it does not address the concerns stated here and acts as a means to excuse this behavior.

[mosaicex]

Oh, this thread again.

Well, you can fix the game, but good luck trying to fix people.

[Frozenbear]

Oh, this thread again.

Well, you can fix the game, but good luck trying to fix people.

oh my goodness, i bet you make an adorable little tank. think its time for a "how ridiculously cute are lala tanks" thread!

[KaedrianLiang]

/lumberjack

The solution is to find 7 other people you trust.

[Elusana_Celah]

The solution is to find 7 other people you trust.

I have people I can play with the issue is that they aren't all at my beck and call and we all have our own time differences and real lives that make it so we can't always do things together. I mean it could be a good week before we can get together. I've been trying to find people who match my own times and are more active but it's not as simple as you think. First of all we have to have personalities that get along well or we'll just be down each other's throats, second of all they have to want to succeed and have the skills to do so. It's a daunting process and I'm trying the best I can but the initial point of my post is how sad it is that this "Carry me I don't want to put any effort into learning lol" attitude is so overwhelming that is permeates our culture like a stink cloud.

[KaedrianLiang]

I have people I can play with the issue is that they aren't all at my beck and call and we all have our own time differences and real lives that make it so we can't always do things together. I mean it could be a good week before we can get together. I've been trying to find people who match my own times and are more active but it's not as simple as you think. First of all we have to have personalities that get along well or we'll just be down each other's throats, second of all they have to want to succeed and have the skills to do so. It's a daunting process and I'm trying the best I can but the initial point of my post is how sad it is that this "Carry me I don't want to put any effort into learning lol" attitude is so overwhelming that is permeates our culture like a stink cloud.

Ok.

the solution is to find 7 other people you trust that are online with a common interest.

[Talia_Hailwind]

Ok.

the solution is to find 7 other people you trust that are online with a common interest.

Good luck with that.

[Frozenbear]

Good luck with that.

I lold. had the same thought first time i read it.

[NyarukoW]

..... "Carry me I don't want to put any effort into learning lol" attitude is so overwhelming that is permeates our culture like a stink cloud.

That is your own false interpretation and then using it for your own false indignation and insulting everyone else. It does NOT matter if there are a select few that want to troll or want to be carried, given a large enough player population, a seven sigmas away from norm, you are bound to encounter one of these, but the vast majority of players are not like that at all.

Since clearing T9 at the end of November, I've been helping others clear T9. What you find more commonly is overconfidence, people who over-rate their skill or knowledge, and then find themselves quickly over there heads. Having watched a video does not equal "know the mechanics", and without practice no player will know or be able to internalize the timing of mechanics at all even if it is something completely scripted like T9. If you have a group of 7 are trying to work on fire-in/fire-out/thunder and someone who is dying to lunar dynamo over and over, you just have to kindly ask them to leave. If they want to be mean and nasty about it, there is always the vote kick. But the one thing that really helps, is getting everyone in on voice chat (mumble/TS/etc.) and being able to talk will alleviate any of this kind of misunderstanding, and players will usually volunteer to leave after seeing that they do not understand it as well as they think.

....The video gives you immediate familiarity to the pacing and key mechanics. ....

Videos can't teach you pacing at all the stuff has all been edited to point out certain aspects or point of views. And the videos typically makes no sense and often is just information overload. I encourage people to run it once blind wipe for 20 minutes or so and then go watch the videos now with some awareness as to what to look for in the video.

...you're costing the other 7 members of your DF party up to 90 minutes each...

This is a game, game time is people playing together, wiping and having fun. "90 minutes each" of fun playing time is not a cost. If players are thinking about it as a cost like a job, need to paid, etc. then go do something else.

...
But it's not only those who join, theres many who actually start farm parties with no clue on the fight also just hoping for 7 others to join to carry them.

This happens quite often actually. Instead of getting mad at the PF or other players, just realize you can NOT farm on the PF, you need a static to farm. You can recruit for your static and do tryouts and go from there.

... twist this into another "nobody helps noobs" thread...Everyone has the right to make a pf with any requirements they see fit...

That is such a false misrepresentation. First of all PF = Pseudo-Farm at best, I've seen so call farm parties with so called top players, at least in their own words, fail and wipe over and over and then get into a pissing match. If you want to farm, get your static together and farm, but do not expect the PF to magically supply you 7 other players. If you are using the PF, you are begging for others to assist you and unreasonable requires simply can not be met.

The thread was never a bout "nobody helps noobs", but rather it is about "no noobs wanted" and that is not acceptable. The OP started out on a neutral stance, but by the 3rd post, it betrayed the OP's real intent with the "stink cloud". Stop hating on the noobs. The unspoken rudeness is why people think it is ok ot hate on the noobs.

[Elusana_Celah]

huge misunderstanding

I think you are greatly misunderstanding the point of this post. I don't use voice chat because it ruins my gaming experience since the only reason I play an MMO is for the immersion and while this may not hurt other people's immersion, it does with mine. I learn everything about a fight including all of the triggers and do what I am supposed to do and never require babysitting. I am past T10 now just haven't made any learning parties for T11 yet.

Not gonna turn this into a VOIP discussion, to each their own. But again, I will make party finders, if other people want to get on a VOIP that's fine, I will not. But I shouldn't be obligated to do something I don't want to do in a party finder that I hosted simply because it might increase the chances of success with people who aren't really confident in the fight.

People usually get pissed off when I say this but I feel if I have to babysit someone in a voice chat and handfeed them every mechanic right before it's happening instead of them keeping focused and preparing for it on their own, it is STILL carrying them.

Some more appropriate uses of voice chat:

Discuss pre-battle strategies. Not everyone is a fast typer and some people understand better while listening than reading. I am one of those people who will lose focus on what's being said to me if someone is talking a lot so I need to read opposed to listen to the strategy.

People playing tank and offtank to call out provoke times to each other in the event that reading macros is too difficult. Not being sarcastic but I guess some people literally can't focus on a fight and glance over at a chat at the same time so whatever works for them.

Perhaps healers can use it to coordinate with each other in real time to make more effective use of their heals.
It is debatable whether it can speed up learning... or it could make them completely dependent on being told the mechanics so that's debatable usefulness.
It just aids synergy in some cases though I tried the voice chat with my friends to help them out of T9 and all we did was wipe for 6 hours so guess that didn't help them at all lol.

But I guess if you can lead people and think it'll help you get the job done by helping people out of 'tunnelvision' to get them to focus better then all the more power to you. I just don't want the extra stress by playing fight-mechanic babysitter.