Cerberus DPS Method - It Needs To Be Said. . .

[Iagainsti]

I check replies by searching by My Posts.
You're always good for a laugh. :3 Particularly enjoy how you ignore any post of mine that unarguably thrashes any point you're trying to make.

My Love/Hate relationship with Sousoulsu grows with each post like this, more on the Love side now #WCW

[Caraway]

I'm not sure what time Third's been doing their WoD runs at but I can say that I have never seen anyone even suggest the ABC method. It has always been "All DPS In" every time I've gone through that raid.

The only time I've seen it fail has been 1) someone not chaining in time, 2) OTs aren't grabbing the Wolfsbane.

On top of this there have been plenty of runs where I have not gotten to the second belly stage. The fight was over by then.

Can I make any comparisons about which is faster? No, obviously, because I've never even seen someone suggest anything other than "All DPS In".

To be honest though, it does make sense to stick them all in. The damage is negligible inside because the DoT doesn't get the time to pick up. Unknowns can be safely ignored (if necessary, pop Second Wind, those things hit like warm towels). There are fewer Wolfsbane out (I've seen as few as two, one of which died thanks to tank DPS nearly as soon as DPS were out of the belly) as well.

Regardless... At the end of the day it all comes down to which method the people you're playing with are most familiar with. And yes, communication is something that is very poor across the board and needs to improve. Otherwise DF 24 man raids will always be light on mechanics/tuning.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Everyone loves a sideshow, I suppose.

I should note, if you must know, that I generally only ignore Sou's replies that distort or misinterpret what I say, which unfortunately tends to be nearly all of them. The larger points have been made, agreed with, and disputed, but many agree both work (again, previously stated), and that communication is key for either one. The rest, honestly is just conjecture and flame-baiting at this point.

There could be a number of factors, but I have not made an attempt to go in as a DPS since starting this topic, and have seen less "all in" runs lately. . . and absolutely no change in how long it takes, except if/when there are people trolling or legit problems.

[Artair]

IMO all non MNK DPS should go in. Monks are better staying outside, blowing up the adds before the other DPS are finished in the belly and never lose GL. The OT (If you are lucky enough to have an OT with an IQ higher than 2 who actually grabs adds) takes less damage (so many healers just completely ignore the poison and end up having to spam heal the OT when they could just esuna once or twice and DPS instead) and the dps who were inside can jump straight onto cerb once they get shat out. Win/Win.

ABC is full retard anyway because you don't need a full party to do chains and you don't need a full party to do adds.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I agree it doesn't take all of C for the chains. Instead the others can either help with adds or continue attacking Cerberus. No momentum wasted. (This was something previously stated).

It's really not a matter of better or faster. But all 15 dps in is just unnecessary.

[Artair]

Only need 1 dps to kill adds before the inside dps get out. The faster the walls die the faster cerb is slumped so the MT and all heals can switch to DPS mode and the faster the second belly phase starts. If the dps who stay outside can't deal enough damage while the walls are being killed to prevent a second belly phase then it takes longer than all dps in and results in more incoming damage to the group as a whole. Simple as that.

[Sousoulsu]

I should note, if you must know, that I generally only ignore Sou's replies that distort or misinterpret what I say, which unfortunately tends to be nearly all of them. The larger points have been made, agreed with, and disputed, but many agree both work (again, previously stated), and that communication is key for either one. The rest, honestly is just conjecture and flame-baiting at this point.

I read what you say, respond to what you say (Usually saying, with appropriate evidence provided, that you're wrong) and then you get pissy at me. I really don't know what to tell you. If me pointing out the missteps you make in your reasoning gets you so miffy, I would suggest you do one of two things:
1)Stop replying to me;
2)Stop being wrong so often.

Just to put a cap on this topic:
Fact: More damage dealers inside belly = more damage output on the walls.
Fact:More damage output on the walls = faster belly finish
Fact: Faster belly finish = faster fight

Bad groups are bad groups. No method changes a bad group to a good group. But in this situation, one method is better than the other in every measurable way. And that method happens to be All DPS in the belly.

Being passive-aggressive and deflecting away from the topic that ~you~ brought up does not change the above.
Both methods work, but one works faster, making it the better method.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Please take your own advice. Please especially take #2.

Actually, please take both to heart. I know how much you perhaps want to be right and want the last word (and at this, please take it), but it passed the point of reason a long time ago, and it's neither cute nor funny. It's actually pretty pathetic and borderline creepy if I may be so honest. And passive-aggressive deflection from a near-dead topic dragged back up by you if only to again make a self-supporting (and completely wrong due AGAIN to misinterpreted) statement is, once again, not as on the mark as you think it is.

So let's try openly aggressive: "faster = better" is narrow minded and one-dimensional, you need something better to do at 5AM, I question your comprehension skills now, and while I lack any interest in what you say at this point, please say it then shut the hell up.

P.S.

Both methods work, but one works faster, making it the better method.

Except that it's been established that it really isn't faster. Thus it isn't any better OR worse (It IS however impractical). Thus your wrong.

2)Stop being wrong so often.

[Sousoulsu]

Please take your own advice. Please especially take #2.

Actually, please take both to heart. I know how much you perhaps want to be right and want the last word (and at this, please take it), but it passed the point of reason a long time ago, and it's neither cute nor funny. It's actually pretty pathetic and borderline creepy if I may be so honest. And passive-aggressive deflection from a near-dead topic dragged back up by you if only to again make a self-supporting (and completely wrong due AGAIN to misinterpreted) statement is, once again, not as on the mark as you think it is.

So let's try openly aggressive: "faster = better" is narrow minded and one-dimensional, you need something better to do at 5AM, I question your comprehension skills now, and while I lack any interest in what you say at this point, please say it then shut the hell up.

P.S.
Except that it's been established that it really isn't faster. Thus it isn't any better OR worse (It IS however impractical). Thus your wrong.

In any metric that can be measured, all DPS in is better; and most players seem to agree that if a kill is assured, a faster kill is ideal.

How is all DPS in belly not faster? You have not quantified this claim.

You're doing it again - please stop getting mad at me and resorting to personal attacks when I point out a misstep in your thought process. It makes your argument weaker and makes you seem like an overly-emotional dolt.
If I truly bother you so much that you have to resort to unfounded personal attacks, just don't reply. It really is that easy.

[Reinfeld]

P.S.
Except that it's been established that it really isn't faster. Thus it isn't any better OR worse (It IS however impractical). Thus your wrong.

The method you choose probably only shaves 20-60 seconds off your clear, BUT If you're trying to minimize your clear time as much as possible the method that works better depends on your DPS output.

- If you have low DPS (can't get Cerberus below 35%ish before second belly either way) both methods should be roughly equivalent in speed because even though you kill the belly slower with ABC, you still have about the same damage output from 15 DPS and are incapable of reaching the insta-kill from second belly either way.

-If you have average DPS (most DF groups) and you ABC you risk getting him below 25% before belly because you delayed his second phase thus wasting DPS; however, with the all in method you end the belly phase asap to start his next rotation and should have no problem getting him to ~30% (then if need be you can shave off his last few % while he's unconscious).

-If you have high DPS it can go either way. If your DPS is very high, delaying his rotation with ABC might allow you to kill him before the second belly. If it's Extremely high it doesn't matter because you'll be able to finish him off either way.

So assuming you have a run with average DPS (probably 80-90% of DF runs) all in will be slightly faster, whereas ABC is only better if you are intentionally trying to delay his next phase.