Seriously SE???

[Zohnax]

By less, I'm talking more about things like vanity DLC's where you're expected to pay comparatively remarkable amounts for not even a fraction of the game.

To me, it's remarkable how willing people are to give into the idea when I've heard so much complaints about other companies doing the same or less. Games I usually avoid like the plague.

>Vanity
>DLC

We're talking about expansions for MMOs here. In actuality, when 2.0 launched, it had a complete story, and then new elements added into the game were woven into the story in later patches. But saying that you're being pillaged by Square Enix for having all these optional features that have zero impact on gameplay is ridiculous. Video games have come a long way in 20 years, and yes, production costs have become a problem because games have become more graphically intense and demanded for sequels.

Here's some reading material on the subject:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/econo...st-explains-15

It's the fact that in spite of all these extra costs, they still feel the need to charge an expansion pack more than the base cost of the game itself. Where is the line actually drawn?

Just because the value of the initial game has depreciated, does not mean that the addition of an equivalent content amount automatically depreciates as well.

The initial cost of 1.0 was $50.00 USD for standard, and whenever it was basically re-released as A Realm Reborn(2.0), it was $30, ($40 for PS3), because it wasn't really new content and they realized how much they had screwed up with 1.0. There was actually a period during 1.0 where they stopped charging people to play because of how poorly it was doing and even when the tsunami hit, they reimbursed players for their servers being offline.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/06...pricing-model/

[Zumi]

By less, I'm talking more about things like vanity DLC's where you're expected to pay comparatively remarkable amounts for not even a fraction of the game.
I've never played a game that asks for so much money from me before and I am not someone who spends off the cuff.

To me, it's remarkable how willing people are to give into the idea when I've heard so much complaints about other companies doing the same or less. Games I usually avoid like the plague.

You keep saying the price is too expensive and I know I seen you post during the 1.0 era so you have a legacy sub which means you are already paying $5-7 less pre month then everyone depending on how many months you pay for at a time. If you take that $5 you save each month vs the normal sub you could pretty much buy all the vanity stuff and have money left over.

[Welsper59]

You keep saying the price is too expensive and I know I seen you post during the 1.0 era so you have a legacy sub which means you are already paying $5-7 less pre month then everyone depending on how many months you pay for at a time. If you take that $5 you save each month vs the normal sub you could pretty much buy all the vanity stuff and have money left over.

You should take a look at the post above you (if you're not doing that now lol).

[Gilthas]

The funny thing about people complaining about the price of games: when you take inflation into account, the prices of games have become cheaper not more expensive.

Gamers want more and more from each game while paying less and less, all the while development costs have skyrocketed. Yes, it is true that the fact that the market is much larger these days helps, and more units are sold, helps offset the develpment costs, but paid DLC and Cash Shops in MMO's have become important for games to generate a profit. It sucks, but that's life for you.

And yes, it is true that there are companies out there releasing free additional content (Blizzard and CD Projekt ReD for example), but not all companies have the luxury to do that.

It's the fact that in spite of all these extra costs, they still feel the need to charge an expansion pack more than the base cost of the game itself. Where is the line actually drawn?

This isn't really a fair comparison though. You can't just pretend that FFXIV doesn't have a history. 1.0 was a true disaster that earned FFXIV a terrible reputation. To relaunch the game they needed to get past 1.0's terrible reputation, hence the small entry fee. Now that people know that 2.0 is a whole different beast, prices go back to normal.

[ScarletDawn]

Oh dear people taking retail Game stores as official price tagging. Considering they have not even given us a release date for 3.0 why are people so gullible. I will wait for the Heavensward site to be updated and to buy from the SE store.

[Gramul]

I know I'm laying on the passions thickly, but lately this industry and its fans have pushed me further and further into frustration. I've not bought an expansion for a game in a long tome and seeing it be double my expected cost pushed me over the edge.

Games have gotten so bloated and mismanaged that last year, we where met with broke.n release after broken release, and people still handed companies their hard earned money. Kiskstarted games are abandoned, people are still preordering games, pay to not wait has become a viable genre, game journalism has become an insane carnival of blame on all sides, people eagerly await a 5 hour long B movie reject of a game with 2 hours of cutscenes, content that would have been fun unlockables are now stuck behind paywalls. It's insanity. Pure diesel powered insanity.

If this is "just how it is" there is a major problem.

*stares*orz ARR CE was $120 here...

Unfortunately Australia's import/export laws will ensure the expansion will also be outrageously overpriced.

[Nominous]

If this is "just how it is" there is a major problem.

I understand the frustration. This in particular is a small problem in the bigger picture of what you seem to be annoyed with.

All of the stuff you mentioned is just a part of gaming in the course of natural evolution. The internet/information generation changed a lot of things, and it changed a lot in gaming as well, arguably not for the better. It changed every form of entertainment. Music, Movies, Art, Novels, almost everything you can think of. With information so readily available, the issues that you mentioned were bound to come up. Issues that would have never been the spotlight of the community, were made big deals because it's immortalized on the internet. Gaming Journalism became so big that it made the idea of print magazines almost inefficient or obsolete in terms of getting information. Pirating became rampant. All sorts of 'bad' things.

All the other stuff is just like I said, how the world is, not gaming. If you haven't noticed by now, everything around you works on the same principles. We're nickled and dimed wherever we can be, because that's how businesses work. There's always a new trinket or new feature you can add to something for extra (DLC ideas), there's always 'optional' bonuses you can add to existing services (HBO/SHOtime, HD for cable, warranties for things, the list goes on). There's always overcharging for things that should be cheap. Stuff that you buy isn't always what's promised, sometimes it's bugged or defective.

For me, this is why I can cope with gaming being the way it is now. It's just kind of taking it's natural course of changes. Until there's a ton of radical companies that set the bar ridiculously high, without any of these practices being implemented, there won't be any reason for other companies not to.

[Welsper59]

I understand the frustration. This in particular is a small problem in the bigger picture of what you seem to be annoyed with.

All of the stuff you mentioned is just a part of gaming in the course of natural evolution. The internet/information generation changed a lot of things, and it changed a lot in gaming as well, arguably not for the better.

Agreed. Honestly, the closest thing to old school tradition is Nintendo (though some would argue against that). Note that "closest" is the keyword there lol. After the early rise of GREAT indie games like Super Meat Boy, quality control has dropped even further than it already was at the time. There was money to be made, not just by good indie devs (like Team Meat), but also those hoping to see equal results for **** products.

In the case of this games expansion though, even back in the day, it wasn't much different than it is now. Starcraft: Brood Wars, an expansion pack from 1998, had an MSRP of $30. Not sure where people are getting the idea that xpac games are dirt cheap... you know, given that BW is arguably the most recognized example of what an "expansion pack" is. I guess we could also include D2: LoD, but that was a few years after BW.

[Gramul]

I understand the frustration. This in particular is a small problem in the bigger picture of what you seem to be annoyed with.

All of the stuff you mentioned is just a part of gaming in the course of natural evolution. The internet/information generation changed a lot of things, and it changed a lot in gaming as well, arguably not for the better.

You're right. I overreacted due to tangentially related issues that I feel are causing a lot of instability and anti-consumer sentiment. Sorry for the outburst. I'm generally more composed (I hope).

In all honesty 40 bucks for this amount of content isn't bad at all. I just wish the revenue from everything else would help keep other costs down.

Agreed. Honestly, the closest thing to old school tradition is Nintendo (though some would argue against that). Note that "closest" is the keyword there lol. After the early rise of GREAT indie games like Super Meat Boy, quality control has dropped even further than it already was at the time. There was money to be made, not just by good indie devs (like Team Meat), but also those hoping to see equal results for **** products.

That would explain a lot of my frustrations. The past 2 generations, the vast majority of what I played have been Nintendo and indie titles. I never had the chance to ease into all these changes and attitudes and from my perspective, a lot of it just seems manipulative and greedy.

If you take that $5 you save each month vs the normal sub you could pretty much buy all the vanity stuff and have money left over.

I'd rather budget that into life expenses, investments and savings.

[Nominous]

You're right. I overreacted due to tangentially related issues that I feel are causing a lot of instability and anti-consumer sentiment. Sorry for the outburst. I'm generally more composed (I hope).

In all honesty 40 bucks for this amount of content isn't bad at all. I just wish the revenue from everything else would help keep other costs down.

Sadly, most businesses aim for surplus funds, which is why things cost as much as they do. Revenue is important, but what they're really looking for is good profits. Business is rough. I realize this after watching a local business's labor cost percentages. About 30% of the time, they're either just barely breaking even, or in the negative. That means they're literally paying out more than they make, regardless of the price the consumer sees on their end.

MMO's probably have a similar issue. Rising and falling sub-fees, time in-between expansions being rough 'low profit' seasons where they need to make up money (Cash Shop) before they get into money-making season (Expansion). There's always two sides to every story. It's fair to be annoyed at businesses for high costs. But I think it's a bit more unsettling to not consider the other side, at the very least. It's not defending them, just seeing from every perspective. Understanding that it isn't so crazy to not want your company to crash and burn because you wanted to please a vocal minority of people, just because it's the morally correct thing to do. This is some people's livelihood, and while I don't agree with all the practices, I can at the very least respect that. If I ran a business, I can't say that I'd always be able to please every person who complained about things like this, because while they're important, so is the company that was built to please them.