The Unspoken Rudeness

[Frozenbear]

"Stop trying to twist this into another "nobody helps noobs" thread."
well said Izsha.

[Ageofwar]

putting a side silly meme's and my own raw experiences of T5 and T6 on DF

I believe the issue of "Unspoken Rudeness" is as follows :-

1) Newbie's wanting to to get though content and getting around the constant drop out after 1 try and lie and cheat there way into farming parties

2) Hardcore raider that RNG has been unkind to trying to DF to catch up or get glamor gear with thier fellow raiders abusing kick and ragequit to get a one shot runs

sadly points 1 and 2 tend to go around in circles with the problem only getting worse

3) People trolling and general assholes

which only makes issues 1) and 2) worse

yes i do know that DF can be rather russan roulette as to the party makeup i feel there is alot of hardcore raiders just don't get this. If you really don't want a party that will wipe 20+ times with zero progress DON'T JOIN DF

my rule of thumb i tend to work by is the following:-

DF - Practise runs
PF - Serious runs

[Tiggy]

I'm tired of the whole.."watch a video" thing with this game. I learn by doing more so than by watching. And even if I watch said video, it won't matter until i actually try. The problem isn't watching the video, its the people that think not watching it makes you a bad player. Its a game. One of the fun things about playing a game is learning from your mistakes.

The video gives you immediate familiarity to the pacing and key mechanics. It can help avoid many pitfalls right out of the gate and allow the group to gloss over what should be the small details. It's never been about learning the whole fight from the video. It's about coming in with the most basic level of research done instead of expecting whatever group of 7 gets stuck with you to explain every single little detail in a fight that's been out for over a year. Your attitude of just go in and learn it yourself 100% leans on the players around you for no ones benefit but yourself. If that's what you do then you drag them down and make the fight take forever for your own selfish reasons. There are 8 people in that fight and you are only 1 of them. It's not only about you or people like you that share this attitude. Go find a group of like minded individuals and learn it with them.

[Frozenbear]

6 inch stilettos

I'm interested in this.

[MeiUshu]

you always have a choice, but whatever choice you make is nobody else's fault if you expectations of the choice you made is not up to paar with what happens.

If you live with this..you surely will be more happy.

Downed up to T7 so far.....only exclusively via DF and once a half a pre made group that formed into a DF *lol* of perfectly unknown people never met seen or what not. Yes is possible, it takes just some will.

What is funny ? is when you run a DF let say T5, and people leave, or rage quit and you then try again you will find those same people over and over and over again, that is what is funny *lol*

Mei

[Dererk]

If I want to get stuff done it is my right to kick the weasels who sneak join.

Why can't I do this? Please tell me. I want progress others who joined for this reason want it so why not. Yesterday I did a clear only T10 then we wer gona do T11 next some left others stayed I asked if people cleared if no what's your experience one said tethers so I put phase 3 T11 progression cleared it about an Hour later. I cleared it last week did I have to put progression ? Nooooo did I yes because they stayed so gave a chance so stop whining about pug abuse or what ever this is getting at people will take chances with you some times but don't expect to stay if you keep mesing up.

[NyarukoW]

..... "Carry me I don't want to put any effort into learning lol" attitude is so overwhelming that is permeates our culture like a stink cloud.

That is your own false interpretation and then using it for your own false indignation and insulting everyone else. It does NOT matter if there are a select few that want to troll or want to be carried, given a large enough player population, a seven sigmas away from norm, you are bound to encounter one of these, but the vast majority of players are not like that at all.

Since clearing T9 at the end of November, I've been helping others clear T9. What you find more commonly is overconfidence, people who over-rate their skill or knowledge, and then find themselves quickly over there heads. Having watched a video does not equal "know the mechanics", and without practice no player will know or be able to internalize the timing of mechanics at all even if it is something completely scripted like T9. If you have a group of 7 are trying to work on fire-in/fire-out/thunder and someone who is dying to lunar dynamo over and over, you just have to kindly ask them to leave. If they want to be mean and nasty about it, there is always the vote kick. But the one thing that really helps, is getting everyone in on voice chat (mumble/TS/etc.) and being able to talk will alleviate any of this kind of misunderstanding, and players will usually volunteer to leave after seeing that they do not understand it as well as they think.

....The video gives you immediate familiarity to the pacing and key mechanics. ....

Videos can't teach you pacing at all the stuff has all been edited to point out certain aspects or point of views. And the videos typically makes no sense and often is just information overload. I encourage people to run it once blind wipe for 20 minutes or so and then go watch the videos now with some awareness as to what to look for in the video.

...you're costing the other 7 members of your DF party up to 90 minutes each...

This is a game, game time is people playing together, wiping and having fun. "90 minutes each" of fun playing time is not a cost. If players are thinking about it as a cost like a job, need to paid, etc. then go do something else.

...
But it's not only those who join, theres many who actually start farm parties with no clue on the fight also just hoping for 7 others to join to carry them.

This happens quite often actually. Instead of getting mad at the PF or other players, just realize you can NOT farm on the PF, you need a static to farm. You can recruit for your static and do tryouts and go from there.

... twist this into another "nobody helps noobs" thread...Everyone has the right to make a pf with any requirements they see fit...

That is such a false misrepresentation. First of all PF = Pseudo-Farm at best, I've seen so call farm parties with so called top players, at least in their own words, fail and wipe over and over and then get into a pissing match. If you want to farm, get your static together and farm, but do not expect the PF to magically supply you 7 other players. If you are using the PF, you are begging for others to assist you and unreasonable requires simply can not be met.

The thread was never a bout "nobody helps noobs", but rather it is about "no noobs wanted" and that is not acceptable. The OP started out on a neutral stance, but by the 3rd post, it betrayed the OP's real intent with the "stink cloud". Stop hating on the noobs. The unspoken rudeness is why people think it is ok ot hate on the noobs.

[NyarukoW]

The real unspoken rudeness is why do people think it is ok to hate on the noobs.

[gamesmart]

The real unspoken rudeness is why do people think it is ok to hate on the noobs.

Nobody here is indiscriminately hating on all newbies. Only the ones that don't speak up.

If they don't speak up, let us know that they are new, and then proceed to waste the time of 7 other people, especially if it's a PF, that's literal unspoken rudeness. Personally, I expect people to communicate if they don't have the fight down to a T (pun intended?), and if they do I'm much more considerate, and will likely explain mechanics to the best of my ability, so long as they actually LEARN. I don't have an infinite amount of patience, and if progress isn't happening then I will start getting frustrated.

[Izsha]

That is such a false misrepresentation. First of all PF = Pseudo-Farm at best, I've seen so call farm parties with so called top players, at least in their own words, fail and wipe over and over and then get into a pissing match. If you want to farm, get your static together and farm, but do not expect the PF to magically supply you 7 other players. If you are using the PF, you are begging for others to assist you and unreasonable requires simply can not be met.*

The thread was never a bout "nobody helps noobs", but rather it is about "no noobs wanted" and that is not acceptable. The OP started out on a neutral stance, but by the 3rd post, it betrayed the OP's real intent with the "stink cloud". Stop hating on the noobs. The unspoken rudeness is why people think it is ok ot hate on the noobs.

Again. Kicking someone from a party finder is not noob hate. The entire point of the op was people being rude by joining party finders that are obviously not aimed at them. If a pf says lala only and your not a lala, then that pf isn't for you. If it's ilvl 110 minimum pf and you i90 smn, that doesn't mean "hey ill put on my 130 dex accessories and join up on smn!". That pf isn't for your smn. If I make a pf with the only open slot is a healer and you wanna dps, don't join as healer then swap to dps. If a pf is asking for highly expert performance and you've never set foot in the fight, it's not for you. Disagreeing with the rules the leader makes doesn't matter. If pf says I get ALL the loot, then don't join it if you plan on lotting. If their pf rules are really stupid they will figure it out when no one ever joins.

If you think someone's pf criteria are dumb or unfair then DON'T JOIN IT. this has NOTHING to do with being noob hate.

Like that post pages ago when someone joined ifrit ex pf and didn't have it unlocked, but wasted 7 people's time until they figured out he hadn't beaten titan yet and got kicked. That's not noob hate. He joined a pf and didn't want to go along with the PF leaders purpose. That's frigging ridiculous. Don't be that guy. That's what this thread was about before everyone started making it some affront on newbies. It's not. But everyone would rather trot out newbs and learning party struggles as a red herring than just acknowledge "yeah joining a pf with deceitful intent to dodge the pf criteria is kinda messed up. They should just pm the leader 1st"