Thread: [dev1016] Post 1.20 HQ Crafting

Originally Posted by Frein

In FFXI it simply wasn't profitable to make NQ gear because HQ gear had the same material cost and was easy to make if you were far above the recipe level. If you couldn't HQ, you would always lose money, which made leveling crafting extremely expensive. You'd think refining materials was an activity that creates value, but that's not how the current system works.

This is incorrect. It was not AS profitable as crafting an HQ item, but it was still profitable.

The problem for crafters (DoH) is that the market never considers how much it costs to level a crafting skill to a level which allows the crafter to make a recipe. All we get are RMTs who sell items at or below cost of materials.

Most crafters grind on recipes and sell the product to NPCs.

I simply cannot believe that SE is going to change the crafting system to allow 100% HQ outcome. Again they are trying to make FFXIV like WoW. In FFXI there was always a chance of synthesis failure. Ask anyone who had their Hakutaku Eye Cluster synthesis fail.

Personally, I think they are making a HUGE mistake!

I am not opposed to simplifying the crafting process. It's a pain in the a$$ to grind recipes to level crafting in FFXIV. It wasn't easy in FFXI either. I do think that the amount of SP to level in FFXIV is a LOT higher than it was in FFXI and the amount of SP per synthesis is comparable.

I really dislike the variable SP per synthesis.

I don't buy Yoshida-san's inventory versus HD space argument. This NQ/HQ solution is going to suck.

Why can't they give us specific facts on exactly how they plan to implement changes?

And to all of those out there who say people get "pissy" about changes:

It's not because its a change, it's because they don't give us facts and we care about the game. If people didn't care, they would not say anything or they would simply quit playing the game like so many people already have done. It's great that they have these forums. Don't post if you don't care. Don't insult us when we have an opinion. We may not be right, but we have the right to express our opinion.

Originally Posted by tymora

I think they didn't mention anything about removing failure.

They haven't. You can still fail your recipe. 100% HQ if you do succeed, but you can still fail.

Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Well if some HQ mats are dungeon drops then there will always be an incentive to go back to those dungeons.

1st of all, the drop will not be every run, so you'll have to run it multiple times to get a HQ mat.

2nd, More than 1 person in the LS might need the HQ mat for their HQ synth and it might be used in multiple recipes so that will make that you have to run the dungeon/zone multiple times over and over.

3rd, More than 1 HQ mat from several dungeons/zones/HNMs might be required so in order to get all the HQ ingredients you will need a LOT of runs and even more so to craft all HQ gears for everyone in the LS.

4th, when the cap is raised and new content is added, there will still be incentive to run (even tho the content might be trivial) the lower tier dungeons/zones/hnms because higher recipes will require the lower level HQ craft, so you'll need to run it again to acquire such lower HQ mats to make lower HQ gear to craft higher end HQ gears/items.

This is the way it should be, and i really hope this is the way it is . i still do not beleive that a 0% chance on a HQ w/o all HQ mats is a good thing, and for the more common recpies 100% chance with all HQ items either.

as a side note i'd like to add somting to another comment you made.

Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Edit: which is way superior to the current HQ process where you need to outrank the recipe by a lot and by such enriching the high level crafters more and more while the new players / mid level players are suffering from this because things are more and more expensive and they can't keep up.

the price of gear atm is crazy i can't agreee with you more there, but i think the reason for this soley rest on the current situation with the market wards, if i make a item and in my mind is worth 5k (mats + a little somting for me) i will sell it for 5k and it normally sells pretty quick, sadly most people will never see that i sold that item for 5k and will reluctently pay the 20k or more other ppl are charging. this could be due to no fault of thier own who's to say what i item is really worth. the lack of any kind of price history is by far the biggest issue with the economy atm prices will never drop if the adverage joe is lead to beleive that the high prices are the norm and noone ever sells the same item for a lower price.

Originally Posted by Zoltan

This is incorrect. It was not AS profitable as crafting an HQ item, but it was still profitable.

i Played FFXI for 10 years, i was a dedicated crafter i have to say you are defently correct in this statement, the only exceptions was when it came to endgame gear you would spend 200k on mats a NQ would be worth 20k and a HQ 500k. this is the way it should be too. that was endgame for crafters, huge risk vs huge reward.

Originally Posted by tymora

[Problems I see]
1) NQ materials will take the place of "worthless" immediately. On the bright side however, they can be used to cheaply rank up even if the end product is not worth anything.

Sorry, Tymora, I don't mean to pick at you specifically, but I've seen this brought up several time, that the NQ items would be worthless, whereas HQ items would be worthwhile. Under the current system this is true, however, you are neglecting a brand new factor being introduced : MATERIA!!

NQ mats won't be worthless, since they are used to make NQ gear, which is turned in Materia by performing activities with it. Materia is the final step in making an HQ item top-tier.

Let me contrast
Current system, from best to worst:
1) Item +3
2) Item +2
3) Item +1
4) Item NQ

Proposed system, from best to worst:
1)Item HQ with two materia
2)Item HQ with one materia
3)Item NQ with two materia
4)Item NQ with one materia
5)item HQ
6)item NQ

Above may vary based on relative strengths of HQ of item vs. strength of materia. Regardless, there WILL be uses for NQ finished items, and hence uses for NQ materials. How much? That remains to be seen.

Originally Posted by Okiura

the price of gear atm is crazy i can't agreee with you more there, but i think the reason for this soley rest on the current situation with the market wards, if i make a item and in my mind is worth 5k (mats + a little somting for me) i will sell it for 5k and it normally sells pretty quick, sadly most people will never see that i sold that item for 5k and will reluctently pay the 20k or more other ppl are charging. this could be due to no fault of thier own who's to say what i item is really worth. the lack of any kind of price history is by far the biggest issue with the economy atm prices will never drop if the adverage joe is lead to beleive that the high prices are the norm and noone ever sells the same item for a lower price.

Yeah, unfortunately that is another matter entirely however it does impact directly on the crafting system. I have no idea what was the concept behind a MW, I hate when they try to hard to make something different. Auction houses have been around in online game for like ever... why? cause it works.

But the price history is not really necessary. Look at a game like WoW, there is no price history and the AH works very good. I liked the history of prices in FFXI though.

Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

But the price history is not really necessary. Look at a game like WoW, there is no price history and the AH works very good. I liked the history of prices in FFXI though.

WoW works cos it's a AH system lol. i have no idea what SE was smoking when they invented market wards. i remember the 1st time i logged in to XIV went in the the wards and went "Wow a dedicaited place for player to bazzar, no more loitering in upper jeuno/rollanberry fields. what a good idea bravo SE" then i went looking for a AH, i was a little shocked when i found out the the MW was the AH lol.