Sick of one GC dominating the data server

[Blubbers]

Queue times have been super janky for me. In my experience, solo queues are almost always a little faster just due to being able to get a queue in progress. I've found having a full group can often give the same queue times as solo queuing. I've had some times where i've 2-5 man queued and it took 1 hr+, and at least a few times where i've had insta-queues with the same group. Before 2.5 with a full group I usually had 5-10 min queues and another over 10 mins was rare, now it's more like 20-30 mins avg queue (Aether Adders) depending on the time. The main issue with having a group queue is if one person doesn't click you all don't get in the game, so it helps to have reliable people.

A huge part of it is when you queue and how popular your GC is. From the sound of it, your GC sounds like it's not very popular if they're losing that much, so in that case queuing with a full group could substantially lower your queue times (as you're providing more people for your GC) and you might even get insta-queues on secure if you get a 24-man.

[ScarletCrusader]

Yes you are right (except the part where it's one GC - it's more like two GC's dominating the other). In primal, Flames has been losing all the time this past month. Adders and Mael switch off from being the winners while Flames always gets 3rd or 2nd. A part of it has been due to:

1) Overall, Flames are not as skilled as Mael/Adders. Sometimes I see you guys giving away your base in Secure to Mael, and sometimes in Slaughter I see a lot of your players overextend a lot or in general not have that great defensive capabilities when a melee/melees rush up to you. I'm an Adder so I don't know for sure but it seems to be the case. I know it's harsh but it's sort of the truth given these recent matches...

[ScarletCrusader]

2) Flames is basically the "Get to Rank 45 fastest GC" where people will join it to get PvP Rank Exp fast without much the effort. Along with the faster queue times compared to Adders and Mael (I've heard it takes about half as long from some people), since Flames always loses, their bonus PvP exp stays at 50%, which nets them 300 PvP Exp every loss (basically a 2nd place) or a 450 PvP Exp every 2nd place (Better than a win). For people who just want to get to the highest rank fastest and do not care about the mounts, flames is the choice. Which also leads to why you guys may constantly keep losing. Some people won't try as hard as possible or will purposely lose on your team in order to maintain that PvP Bonus Exp (If you ever get 1st, you lose it and have to start all over again building it up).

This is basically the reward for the GC that loses the most.

[ScarletCrusader]

3) Flames get double-teamed the most. I know I'm saying this as an Adder (We usually get double teamed a lot too...), but Adders and Mael will usually gang up on Flames since after the recent matches, we've learned you guys are the weakest links for points/kills. So this leads to people prioritizing flames over adders or mael because you guys are easier to kill. As an adder, I've done this myself, and seen this numerous times when I'm PvPing. Although sometimes Adders get double-teamed and Mael gets double-teamed, usually when I see it, if Flames get double-teamed they will get slaughtered and not come back from it.

These are just speculations to why your GC is losing but I don't know of any solution to the current double team problem. There are certain strats to counter it (hiding behind pillar and waiting at OP are some), but overall if you get double-teamed you're going to have a bad time.

Sorry for the triple post... the max limit is 1000 chars only

[Jinglybell]

Whats funny is in the early morning (pacific) the win records are about even for all gcs (when it ques 8v8v8 matches a lot) and USUALLY the Mael I run with almost exclusively target adders like they will straight up ignore you guys even when you are ahead and its a bit annoying. Adders win almost as much as mael on primal data center too, so its not like we're roffle stomping all the matches. Maybe you should go back to sending 2 parties to temple

edit and honestly I usually see serps ignore you guys too at least when I play. Also I think its perceptive Bias, everyone always seems to think theyre getting double teamed constantly, when they're not. If the other two gcs see your alliance is down 2 parties they come in to finish of the last party like lions on a wounded gazelle for easy points, and it happens to all of us.

[ScarletCrusader]

Yeah that's a decent idea. Some sort of defensive buff might help. It might be hard to figure out/code who gets targeted so often that they need a buff though.

[TheWaywardWind]

Before I begin, let me just say to all of the people posting multiple posts due to the 1,000 character limit: Just copy the excess words, delete them, post your comment and then go back and edit them back in. You don't need to post multiple replies to get what you wanted to say in.

Anyway, -

As an Immortal Flame on Primal as well, I understand where you're coming from and I sympathize. Though others will say it's just a matter of "playing better" it's really not that simple in practice because it takes a lot more co-ordination and understanding than just simply making a team of 24 people better. I have rank 45 in PvP and I've played well over 600 Frontline matches, and from what I've seen of slaughter so far, I can say this:

Part of the problem with the Immortal Flames is that everyone is either clueless and won't say a word about it, or everyone is just genuinely off doing their own thing rather than working together as a team. It's hard to achieve victory when half of your alliance is getting wiped at Temple while the other half is getting roflstomped by the Adders up top. There are several problems that face the Flames:

1. We have no set strategy. While strategies are always changing, it's usually good to have at least one default strategy to rely on so that you have some coordination and effort combined rather than just haphazardly rushing at either other team. The Maels and the Adders both have their set strategies in place; they repeat them each match and when shit goes wrong for them they always know what to do just in case. The Flames has none because we need to constantly alter and shift ours.

Alongside this, too much of the Flames' strategy relies on one set thing, like taking the first node that spawns, for example. A lot of the time, we don't get that node, and our entire strategy crumbles to begin with. Half of the alliance retreats, the other half fights and gets creamed by the Adders. There needs to be some sort of coordination for the Flames to win at all or it's just not going to happen.

2. People are afraid to speak up. A lot of new players are now PvPing for the tomes, but nobody really feels like admitting they're new, and rightfully so. It's hard to win when you half 4-5 new people each match who sort of sit in the back in fear and don't really understand what's going on. You need to be more enveloping to change attitudes to inspire people to want to work together, because outwardly dismissing new people isn't going to work.

3. Conversely, some people never shut up. Some people take the reigns each game and drive the entire alliance into a pile of dirt with poor tactics and poor attitudes. Leadership and ideas have to rotate so that strategies rotate. If you rely on one strategy for too long, the other alliances will break you for it. It's the whole name of the game.

4. We get teamed more than the other two GCs. And no, this isn't me complaining; I've counted the times each GC has been teamed up upon and we're usually the ones getting the shaft. And the problem is, we sort of deserve it. When you lose so many times to the same simple strategies or simple baits laid out, people see you as weak, and rightfully so. If the alliance crumbles left and right and nobody wants to work together, of course people will team you more; they see you as easy pickings for free points. Not to say that's entirely fair or true; we HAVE proven ourselves in secure more often than not. But currently, this is also a hindrance. We need to prove ourselves to be at least on equal footing with the other two, and we do that by fixing the above. Otherwise we'll just be seen as the Immortal 3rd Placers.

For the Flames to more adequately establish themselves (at least on Primal) we need to focus and start experimenting, and stop rubbing our hands greedily when thinking of our own self interest. PvP requires teamwork, and in a team of 24 people, you NEED it otherwise you'll never win, period. That's just how it is, unfortunately.

[Niroken]

Flames also runs with an excessive amount of melee which just feeds kills in slaughter. All of them attack the node, get multiple flares and die since no amount of healing will save them then get raised and do it again. They also enjoy overextending well past the point of return.

[TheWaywardWind]

Snip

You literally just took the words out of my mouth before I could type them up. I was just about to add that into my post.

So, I'll continue it from here:

5. Melee is a waste if you can't play it right. We don't need five loldrgs and six lolnins in the alliance. They're fodder for the other team because people don't understand how to use them. Slaughter is heavily favored to ranged DPS; Summoners, Black Mages, and Bards are all the preferred DPS. And 90% of the time, we have a LOT. Like, more to usually outnumber our black mages and bards, which is saying something. This needs to stop unless people can more proactively ensure that they won't die, because it is possible.

6. We aren't invincible (or immortal, if you want to play on puns). If you're going to attack one GC, stick with it until you are ready to shift. We do not have enough players to singlehandedly wipe out the other two GCs at once, and people need to stop thinning out the lines so that we can try to take on both. It never works and the end result is getting piled on by both teams.

7. There aren't enough healers, ever. As someone who mains heals, it's an absolute royal pain being the only one in a group of eight people who has to struggle to heal several melee and tanks who zerg into enemy lines. People don't like healing, and it's understandable. Healing is stressful and there are no achievements given to you from healing like there are killing. But you can't have one person healing, it's too hard and MP drains WAY too quickly. If you're someone who has a level 50 healer, give it a shot. Take one for the team. Cycle out. Play once as a healer, then shift back to DPS. Three healers is enough. Two is fine, too. But as it stands you're going to have a lot of trouble if you have one person healing.

[zeopower6]

A lot of our newer players on Maelstrom run tank or melee and end up dying many many many times despite being told to be more careful. They go too far deep into the crowds and we can't heal them unless we go further in and end up dying ourselves.