Novus Bow? Stats?

[mahouyolo]

snip

Skillspeed is awful and you want to minimize it as much as possible, less than 400 is ideal. Also the amount of dex you gain from full i130 is beat out by both the gain of crit and det and loss of skillspeed with crafted gear. At the bare minimum you need the crafted chest because there is just no way to meet the t13 acc cap with the wod chest without sacrificing good stats on other pieces and defeating the purpose of using it. Hat, earrings, and ring are kind of superfluous but if you meld them right they're marginally better than ironworks hat and dreadwyrm jewelry without sacrificing accuracy.

Det is 1, and I think crit and det are around .33 and .34? So even if you have 20 more dex on one set, if you have more than ~60 crit+det on another set it would be better to use it.

[ruskie]

Skillspeed is awful and you want to minimize it as much as possible, less than 400 is ideal.

I'm just stating what they got meassured with(a crit optimized set vs a dex optimized set).

But yeah my own set has 0 gear skillspeed(so I'm at 341 skillspeed) I detest skillspeed.

Yoichi bow(8 acc, 49 crit, 25 det), ironworks head, hands, belt, boots, neck(upgraded) and 2 rings(1 upgraded), and aural earrings and bracelet with demon chest and kirimu pants(not ideal but 5 crit III materia). I'm at 531 accuracy and atm that's enough for my needs. Will see how rng is helpful during fcob(t10 atm).

[MrYaah]

Skillspeed is awful and you want to minimize it as much as possible, less than 400 is ideal. Also the amount of dex you gain from full i130 is beat out by both the gain of crit and det and loss of skillspeed with crafted gear. At the bare minimum you need the crafted chest because there is just no way to meet the t13 acc cap with the wod chest without sacrificing good stats on other pieces and defeating the purpose of using it. Hat, earrings, and ring are kind of superfluous but if you meld them right they're marginally better than ironworks hat and dreadwyrm jewelry without sacrificing accuracy.

Det is 1, and I think crit and det are around .33 and .34? So even if you have 20 more dex on one set, if you have more than ~60 crit+det on another set it would be better to use it.

Actually with the addition of the WoD chest the preferred way to get accuracy as a bard is with the crafted belt and gloves.

This is basically the set im working with right now http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PSX4 with an effective dex of 1495.802

vs recalculated without WoD as an option http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PSX7 with effective dex of 1494.515

As you can see you can gain a pretty substantial amount of dex and hit acc cap and have less skillspeed if you use the WoD chest. Keep in mind this isnt a bis calculation, its just bis from the gear that I have or can easily obtain. I'm limited by the fact that I don't have dreadpants (through no fault of my own!)

If you throw in dreadpants u get http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PSXE with 1502.279 effective dex and you're basically BiS minus the bow where the only source of improvement available is more expensive melds.

[Ooshima]

If you throw in dreadpants u get http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PSXE with 1502.279 effective dex and you're basically BiS minus the bow where the only source of improvement available is more expensive melds.

No, crafted hands and belt isn't BiS and neither is the Augmented Ironworks Ring.

[MrYaah]

No, crafted hands and belt isn't BiS and neither is the Augmented Ironworks Ring.

-sigh-

I wasn't claiming that set specifically was BiS, just giving an example of an eminently obtainable build.

Absolute BiS

-http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PRIS

notice crafted gloves and belt

This build was proven by a bis solver i wrote that uses the equations used to calculate statweights as a comparison metric to account for interrelations of value between stats, in addition it brute forced the best build (took about an hour to do all the comparisons) from every possible version of melds that are viable (IV's only, every number of available accuracy (9, 18, 19, 25, etc), always maximizing damage otherwise and version of melds that involved capping acc and a stat rather than skillspeed because people like you)

All the work I've put into bis calculations can be found in this repo, well, theres some stuff I havnt pushed recently but all the stuff involved in finding the previously linked build are in the repo below. Its completely open if you wish to critique it yourself. I fully intend to further optimize it and hopefully make it the defacto standard of bard statweight and bis calculations.

https://github.com/jrlusby/xiv-bard-calc

If you want to disagree with this then show me math and explain why, dont use any subjective opinions like "I don't think skillspeed is worth anything" which i know is literally the only thing you think mister I'd rather quadrameld my gear and leave an empty slot than meld skillspeed.

[Ooshima]

Unfortunately, skill speed is shit. Face it. In long fights like Coil, how many more shots can you fire with that +91 Skill speed to justify for the TP drain in which would imply that you have to Paeon longer and eat that 20% for more?

Everyone who uses a gear calculator would know that Skill Speed is given a certain weightage. But does everyone knows that stat weights are technically not absolute, but just as a guideline on how much main stat and secondary stat you can try to exchange, within a reasonable band?

Do you actually believe that by say, swapping 100 DEX with 313 DET, you can effectively parse the same DPS range over say 5 mins or longer?

The current, widely used and accepted stat weights doesn't even account for extreme stacking builds like 2.5 BRDs which can carry them to the extremes of 700 CRIT. If you blindly follow the stat weights which you probably do, you would say the Augmented Magitek > CRIT-DET Yoichi Bow but unfortunately I don't think it is. My CRIT-DET Yoichi outparses the Augmented Magitek 80% of the time. I'm not even talking about a couple of parses. I'm talking about over 50 parses and upwards and days after days of testing. Do you bring your builds out to test and justify your builds or you simply follow a calculator?

And since we are talking about Skill Speed - if you are running on CRIT-DET Yoichi Bow and cutting down on your Skill Speed you will probably realize that you don't need to play any Paeon in T13 for P1 and P2 at all (and of course, your team DPS hard enough to push these 2 phases fast enough) but given the same team with your Augmented Magitek you will run dry before you hit divebomb. Which means you have to Paeon, eat that 3 seconds cast time +20% penalty.

I have published my findings about my 2.5 build (albeit still missing 3 items but the idea is there) with the relevant parse data in another thread while in discussion with another BRD (who clearly knows his shit and part of the top 10 teams for T13). Unfortunately SE doesn't like the idea, the posts were cleaned up and I ate a 10 days ban + infraction points. So I won't have things to show here.

And since you wondered why I quadmeld IV instead of pentameld IV with Skill Speed IV: because I intend to quadmeld IV with Vit IV but prices are insane on Tonberry right now. Why Vit IV? Yes, Skill Speed is shit, I'd say that again. If you even recall, crafted gear in Patch 2.2 progression comes naturally with shit load of Skill Speed. I have full set crafted gear for 2.2 progression and my GCD was at 2.30s at that point in time. What's the benefit? 2-3 more shots over an entire coil turn, but running out of TP nearly as fast as your DRG/MNK in T8? Nah I'm not going to be bothered with Skill Speed, really.

I'm not going to blindly follow some numbers - I'm a person who brings a build out to thoroughly test them for effectiveness. Experience and data from 2.2 until now says it.

[MrYaah]

"skill speed is shit"

"Everyone who uses a gear calculator would know" "everyone knows" "technically not absolute" "just as a guideline" on how much main stat and secondary stat you can try to exchange, within a reasonable band?

"believe"

The current, widely used and accepted stat weights doesn't even account for extreme stacking builds like 2.5 BRDs which can carry them to the extremes of 700 CRIT.

"unfortunately I don't think it is".

My CRIT-DET Yoichi outparses the Augmented Magitek 80% of the time. I'm not even talking about a couple of parses. I'm talking about over 50 parses and upwards and days after days of testing. Do you bring your builds out to test and justify your builds or you simply follow a calculator?


And since you wondered why I quadmeld IV instead of pentameld IV with Skill Speed IV: because I intend to quadmeld IV with Vit IV but prices are insane on Tonberry right now. Why Vit IV? Yes, Skill Speed is shit, I'd say that again. If you even recall, crafted gear in Patch 2.2 progression comes naturally with shit load of Skill Speed. I have full set crafted gear for 2.2 progression and my GCD was at 2.30s at that point in time. What's the benefit? 2-3 more shots over an entire coil turn, but running out of TP nearly as fast as your DRG/MNK in T8? Nah I'm not going to be bothered with Skill Speed, really.

I'm not going to blindly follow some numbers - I'm a person who brings a build out to thoroughly test them for effectiveness. Experience and data from 2.2 until now says it.

Look at all those opinions! believe, think, everyone knows, guidelines. blah blah blah. Ok.

As for stat weights not accounting for extreme stacking, did no not real my post at all!? this wasn't fking calculated with statweights, the value of bloodletter was calculated based on the current crit number which then gave a valid relative value of stacking crit like crazy (which by the way goes down not up as you stack it). Same thing for skillspeed where the lower it gets each new point is valued more, but a stat weight calculation values all the same. I agree with you that statweights arn't a good way to calculate this shit.

I'd love to see the results of this 50+ tests on which build is better, send me a message through reddit my username is /u/MrYaah.

As for the empty melds, You're gonna meld a vit IV on your hat are you? Really?

[MrYaah]

Here, I forgot I actually did the math so insane people like you can have your glorious ss free builds

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PT8V

This isn't a proven 0 Skillspeed BiS, I cannot guaruntee that there are no better meld sets with 0 skillspeed because I didn't put the time into calculating this that I put into the other absolute BiS. the post explaning the logic I used to calculate it is here

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...rd_bis/corv8ij

You will notice WoD chest and crafted gloves. When I get to work I'm going to take the time to make a proven no skillspeed bis to prove one way or the other, even by your, in my opinion, illogical standards, whether or not WoD chest is BiS

Checked the math, turns out that the set I linked is infact exactly the 0 skillspeed bis set, proven according to math, which we all know you believe is hogwash and black magic that must for the sake of progress be disregarded in favor of inconsistent parses and inadequate subjective analysis.

I wish you the best.

[Ooshima]

I'd love to see the results of this 50+ tests on which build is better, send me a message through reddit my username is /u/MrYaah.

To make things clear - with reference to my previous post I am referring to Augmented Magitek VS Yoichi itself. I would love to test your build but that requires me the very least, to re-meld my accessories + obtain a crafted hands+belt with your specified meld. It is not a cheap to do so at current prices.

As for the empty melds, You're gonna meld a vit IV on your hat are you? Really?

I'd agree that you do have valid point out there whilst I do not understand the program you wrote (I am not good with those stuff, in fact it took me some time to understand the basic functions and mechanics behind ACT itself). You obviously knew that I am referring to the right-hand-side stuffs. Who on earth at does crafting, pentamelding, endgame raiding plus some theorycrafting doesn't know a HQ'd left-hand-side cannot accept any more main stat and vitality melds?

If you are wondering about my crafted hat so much: it was made and melded on day-1. No one knew the stat caps and the only way you could know is to actually do it. And probably you have to dump every IV you can so that you max out stat per slot. That was how it ended up with, and as you would have guessed, other pieces such as the belt and shoes are all ended up quad IV melds if ignoring Skill Speed. And of course I'd end out with shit ton of accuracy, but again no one knows what is the accuracy requirements as well. No one knows on day one which piece drops from which turn, and certain drops are without accuracy, and without knowing acc caps further down the turns, maxing acc on each piece if possible is just a play-safe measure.

By preference and by cost, I've chosen not to meld in Skill Speed.
(for some reason or another, even Quickarm IV went out of stock and whenever it was replenished, it commands in the 200k range. It was simply cost inefficient and too expensive to meld it on the 5th slot)


In any case we have derailed. My original reply to you was saying that the crafted hands, belt and augmented ironworks ring isn't BiS. Specifically referring to this 3 items, I did not say that the link you have provided is actually a BiS set. Simple.

And there after you started with your sarcasms which I think it is a shame. You tried to reason with math but you ended them with attacks with every of your reply. Not that I am angry or offended, I don't have a reddit account but I've read your reddit posts since you have invited with your username, but I don't think it does justice to the debate here. I'm trying to debate reasonably without calling you with terms like "which i know is literally the only thing you think mister", "which we all know you believe is hogwash and black magic", "Here, I forgot I actually did the math so insane people like you can have your glorious ss free builds (you impling those bards which you have had a discussion with who preferred to shun Skill Speed are insane too?)", whatsoever, but you are doing otherwise.

If you'd like to present your high level work and research which you are very much proud of (and a good reason to) but to only end it with personal attacks then I don't think it is very much a convincing effort to win differing views over.

Again, I've derailed. Apologies for that but I just have to say it. Nonetheless I would admit that I don't have a clue how your repo/calculator works but at least in conclusion till here that we agreed that stat weights itself isn't a good way to evaluate the value of a gear set.

And maybe, at least from your various reddit posts, you seem to be able to agree that Skill Speed eventually boils down to preference. Which I preferred not to. Which in your discussion with Rinchan, whom personally choose to value Skill Speed itself at 0. But your reaction to the same view from me right here was ridiculously strong:

If you want to disagree with this then show me math and explain why, dont use any subjective opinions like "I don't think skillspeed is worth anything" which i know is literally the only thing you think mister I'd rather quadrameld my gear and leave an empty slot than meld skillspeed.

I didn't even mentioned anything about Skill Speed if you bothered to read again. All I said was the 3 pieces of item there was not BiS itself?

Like Rinchan and other bards in your reddit discussion thread have said, they have considerations about TP issues with regards to having excessive Skill Speed itself, in which you mentioned that the trade off is minimal. Since you have stated that you do have the intention to obtain the set you have calculated (or was it close to it), and since I do not have the intention to to get any skill speed, maybe you actually do have the means to do long parses (by singing paeon to recover your own TP) to actually determine if there is really any, or how much benefits that 91 (or whatever Skill Speed you may have) is.

Or maybe you are much better at song timing and TP management itself that actually made the difference.

I would be all ears to your findings, if you would do it (or is going to get the BiS or anything close to it that you have calculated).


EDIT: BTW I'd agree with your no SS build - http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PT8V