Why Speed Pulls?

[Sousoulsu]

Is that so? So your opinion of Warrior being more difficult in 50+ content is based on your experience as a <lvl. 35 Warrior?
You spelt Eorzea wrong

WAR is a more complex job than PLD by virtue of its mitigation being in part active, and having an actual resource to think about (Wrath stacks).
PLD has no short-term planning to do. All of PLD's planning comes from when to pop their CDs.

Both jobs are strong. But PLD is more noob-friendly.

[Kaiser-Ace]

WAR is a more complex job than PLD by virtue of its mitigation being in part active, and having an actual resource to think about (Wrath stacks).
PLD has no short-term planning to do. All of PLD's planning comes from when to pop their CDs.

Both jobs are strong. But PLD is more noob-friendly.

Thank you Sousoulsu.

[Spoekes]

Thanks for what?
While Sousoulsu is imo correct, your measurement from a low level view is still questionable.
You mentioned WARs dificulty from managing TP and are talking about Invigorate (which isn't even available to WAR), which is not the hard thing and not what Sousoulsu is saying.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Uh Invigorate is a Lancer Skill and Marauder crosses Lancer skills thus the TP problem I lose invigorate and I run out of TP three times faster. The reason I have not leveled past Warrior 35 is because I DON'T LIKE WARRIOR. It's over complicated. I'm a Dragoon by trade so I like to seek and destroy no "Now how many buff do I have again.... Better restack just to make sure." Paladin is Flash-> CoS -> RoH Combo-> Repeat. That is a lot more in line with the Dragoon "Seek and Destroy" mentality.

Don't you think if I enjoyed playing Warrior that it'd be lvl 50 and not Paladin? Honestly you morons seem to think "If you're not 50 you're a noob/scrub" when in reality you already know if you will make that class to 50 by the time you get it's Job crystal. Warrior, Monk, and Black Mage may get 50 one day but it sure as hell wont be before Ninja, White Mage, or Summoner.

[Iagainsti]

Morons eh? One, Spoekes stated Warriors do not get Invigorate, true. Then you switch your statement to "Uh, Marauders blah blah blah" to make her look dumb? Seriously dude. I never once stated you're a noob, so don't be reflecting your own self doubts and make me the vessel. To Sou Soul Su, for all I know, you are right, pally might be more noob friendly, but I wouldn't know because I haven't leveled it past 32, so I DEFINITELY would not be putting my half cocked two cents on here about the whole thing(Hey Kaiser! Here's to you kiddo! See you still haven't fixed that Eorzea typo!) Next time you're feeling opinionated without actually knowing what you are talking about and post it here, don't be mad if someone more knowledgable calls you on that crap.

[Wintersandman]

The reason I have not leveled past Warrior 35 is because I DON'T LIKE WARRIOR. It's over complicated.

Warrior is simple. Not as simple as Paladin but it is simple nonetheless. It is not hard or complex.

[DenebPunkin]

I appreciate your response, but it is not an answer to the question I posed - and I have a feeling you're sidestepping the question.
A completely unskilled group will fall flat on its face from the get-go.
What I asked is:

Both require the same skill. Bigger pulls means the tanks have to pop more CDs, and healers actually have to throw more heals instead of throwing a heal... waiting a few mins and throwing them again. The difference is you have to be a little more alert.

[chidarake]

On the contrary there is just as much people who would tank and pull the whole damned street, if only the other 3 members are competent enough. Times when I enter as tank, I look at how my DPS do their job and how the WHM just stood there AFKing instead of throwing a holy or two to make things more fun, I'd say screw it, I rather queue as BLM and blow things up.

this totally, when I tank which is daily.. I also see dps who cant do decent damage and healers just barely keeping me alive on a few trash pulls, no way I can speed run with those people. that's fine its df..

however if I go as blm I expect to kill a tonne of stuff at once and when its one pull at a time I will just afk the fights cus seriously I can kill 20 mobs in roughly the same time as killing a couple trash packs.. if there grouped up well...


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as for the whole pulling extra trash onto the tank and expecting the tank to gab it... that is not cool.. the tank pulled what they thought they or the group was capable off not what you think, and if the tank cant hold the hate then why pull more.>?


I use to not mind so much when people would do this on me cus I know I can handle it but now if that happens im gonna let that person die then pick up trash to stop them from maiming everyone else. even if that's the healer.... << this is in response to pulled on purpose not accidental pulls, its easy to tell the difference

WAR is a more complex job than PLD by virtue of its mitigation being in part active, and having an actual resource to think about (Wrath stacks).
PLD has no short-term planning to do. All of PLD's planning comes from when to pop their CDs.

Both jobs are strong. But PLD is more noob-friendly.

although I kinda agree with you here I don't think either tank role is really newb friendly at 50... before that your learning the ropes so who cares. post that you better know how to handle yourself and know the instances because otherwise dps and heals are going to be pulling from you constantly.

war's have to know there skills to be able to fully mitigate properly however even they have insta cd's that help out just as much as pld has them.

I don't play war much past getting it to 50 but I know I can pick it up and play it in dungeons and hold the hate ok but not as well as I can on pld since ive used that since day one. the biggest reason I know this is because I know the instances and skills on pld where as im not solid on skill knowledge and how they work on war but once there learned its no harder to play war

Speed pulls - preform your party.
Slow pulls - DF

End of discussion LOL

so not true, I speed run df all the time but based of my judgement of the group and how they handle the first pull. also if I run expert roulette I totally expect that dungeon to go as quickly as it can because its for experts << games wording not mine.

[Faelandaea]

so not true, I speed run df all the time but based of my judgement of the group and how they handle the first pull. also if I run expert roulette I totally expect that dungeon to go as quickly as it can because its for experts << games wording not mine.

The key phrase there is that you base it off the first pull. This makes you a good tank that makes a judgement call at the beginning.

The tank and the healer make the call (it's an equal call between how comfortable the healer is with healing and the tank is with taking the heat). What I was referring to in my post is that DF is not obligatory at all for a speed run. No one can force a tank or healer to speed run in DF, period. DPS do not have a say so, because they are not effected by the speed of the pull - all they have to do is kill everything they need to kill. So the key is to communicate between tank and healer and at least ask, "Hey are you comfortable with bigger pulls or a speed run?"

I am confident in my healing. If the tank takes a moment to ask me at the beginning, "hey can you heal bigger pulls?", not only will my answer be "Yes, let's go for it." but if the run goes without a hitch on his part that tank will DEFINITELY get a commendation from me at the end for communication, because communication is THE most important part of ANY teamwork in any MMO game.

I agree with your view on experts being meant for better players, but as healer I still very much appreciate if the tank at least clarifies how comfortable I am with the healing end before going nuts with a pull. I had a tank assume on an Ex roulette that we would carry him or something, I guess, because the moment we spawned in, even before I had a chance to cast protect, he took off without us and started pulling everything . . . and he died . . . very quickly. To add insult to injury, the guy had like 5000 HP . . . I didn't get a chance to examine him to see what gear he was wearing, but it must not have been at all up to par with Expert dungeons. I'd have examined him, but the DPS vote kicked him before I could even say "WTF?" Hehe. Now, as a cardinal rule, if a tank takes off right as we pop in and does not wait for his buffs, I just grab some popcorn and watch what happens. Most tanks I know will actually refuse to move until they have protect on. And this is a GOOD thing.

Now, on another end of a stick, if the healer or tank says that they are not comfy with speed pulls, never assume this means go total noob and pull only a couple mobs at a time. Again, communicate. There have been times where I was uncomfortable with a tank's gear and I said "Let's do a moderate pull first and see how we do, then go from there." You'd be surprised how well judgement calls can be made with good communication. And during this process I have on more than one occasion had tanks surprise me by having sup-par gear but great gameplay, using their skills and cool-downs in such a way that they were able to do the speed pulls successfully and efficiently.

[KisaiTenshi]

The key phrase there is that you base it off the first pull. This makes you a good tank that makes a judgement call at the beginning.

The tank and the healer make the call (it's an equal call between how comfortable the healer is with healing and the tank is with taking the heat). What I was referring to in my post is that DF is not obligatory at all for a speed run. No one can force a tank or healer to speed run in DF, period.

This pretty much. How often does the Tank ask? 1 in about 30 DF runs. I find it's a bit more fun to see if I can keep up with the Tank if they overpull, but that's very-dependent on what DPS are in the party. Two BLM, go for it.


As a healer, the "safe" pull is around 6 mobs/1 tank, the average dungeon is arranged in groups of 3, so pulling the two closest groups is usually safe and within the capability of a good healer with any DPS player configuration, even in low level dungeons. The game mechanics of the 4-man dungeons still assume you will tackle mobs one at a time, and sleep mobs when possible (though I haven't seen anyone use it properly in forever)