Why Speed Pulls?

[Kaiser-Ace]

If I see the DRG use that fkn Ring of Thorns, then nope - no more long pulls cuz it's not going to go any faster XD

Uh, I main Drg thank you. And Heavy Thrust + Ring of Thorns is more effective AoE than Doom Spike regardless of numbers. I can guarantee that when I use Ring of Thorns to hit 20 mobs hording the tank that I'll hit all 20 of them in one move with RoT. Doom Spike on the other hand is a streight LoS AoE that usually MISSES no less than half the horde because it only fires in a small, narrow line. RoTs actually hits a larger radius of targets and even allows motion to keep moving like should, say, an AoE circle spawn right as we launch the attack. The only attack that has numbers and AoE radius at the same time is Dragonfire Dive and it's cool down makes it more of a one trick pony. Tank Pulls Horde -> Dragonfire Dive the pack from rear line, start HT+RoT combo till the horde is dead.

It amazes me how "Numbers" seem to take place over strategy. If this was an FPS it wouldn't matter how many .50 caliber rounds I use if I don't hit any thing. Like wise that extra... What is it now 40 points, of DPS that DS does vs RoT isn't worth it If I miss half the targets, or worse all of them because "Oh Gods!! I'm wounded and the Healer just got agro!! PANIK!!!" and the tank starts running around the place (Usually chasing the healer who dies 10s later after the mobs Gank him). RoTs was our AoE rotation WAY before the DS buff in 2.4. They actually buffed DS because WE DIDN'T USE IT.

[Xenosan]

... Heavy Thrust + Ring of Thorns is more effective AoE than Doom Spike regardless of numbers...

My approach would be Bfb + life surge > Dragonfire, internal release > doom spike till bfb wears off or maybe 9 sec to land a thrust combo, continue rotation single target rotation on targets

Long animation.

If no one's said anything to you then rock n roll. At least consider RoT has a ridiculously long animation time, and does absolutely dismal damage without Bfb + crit.

And 20 mobs? How many dungeons go up to 20? Brayflops hm? most you ever get is maybe 12 in the new dungeons. Regardless your AOE output is still a fraction of what brd or blm is dishing out, single target the highest threat mob to your tank after your CDs are burned to free up your whm to AOE. Throw some stuns, it'll take 4 or 5 RoTs to equal one Holy. In the amount of time you pull of 5 RoTs whm would be at 3 holy spells, I'm just don't see it.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Regardless your AOE output is still a fraction of what brd or blm is dishing out, single target the highest threat mob to your tank after your CDs are burned to free up your whm to AOE. Throw some stuns, it'll take 4 or 5 RoTs to equal one Holy. In the amount of time you pull of 5 RoTs whm would be at 3 holy spells, I'm just don't see it.

THAT right there is my my problem with your thinking. Heavy thrust is a single target attack. Locate highest priority target (Ochu, Malbor, Dragon ect, ect) and flank hit it with heavy thrust (All GOOD dragoons don't let their buffs stay off any longer than it takes them to charge up so that's invalid as most GOOD tanks use cool downs to not die but I've seen tanks die like Naked healers before cause they didn't) then use RoT to keep the heat on AND add a little damage to the others. Less damage that Black Mage and Bard? Well Duh, overpower and CoS don't do shit for DPS either compared to Flair/Fire 3 and Bard's AoE arsenal. But it always helps. The way I see it, if you're relying on a Dragoon's AoEs then you were screwed the minute you hit "Confirm" on the DF menu. Dragoons are high output Single target DPS with a few AoEs just to help out just like Black Mage is a high output Multi-target DPS with a few single targets so they help out better.

It seems to me that you've "Played" Dragoon but never actually took time to "learn" Dragoon. I can sit back and yell "Stupid tank! Hold your damn agro right!!" but if I haven't played as a tank then I have no idea that your War isn't using over power cause WARs burned up their TP really fast or that your PLD needs a few seconds to get his MP back after he flash spames to empty and cant use Riot Blade for having to use RoH combos to desperately hold hate off the mages.

[Sousoulsu]

It seems to me that you've "Played" Dragoon but never actually took time to "learn" Dragoon.

Doom Spike is 160 Potency.
Ring of Thorns is 100 potency; 150 if used after Heavy Thrust, and costs 40 less TP than Doom Spike.
The reason you think Doom Spike is bad is probably because you are not good at targeting the correct thing and using your positioning to hit as many as possible.
That is a fault of the player, not the ability.
________
For AoE pulls, you go
Heavy Thrust[blood4blood]-Ring of Thorns[internal release]-Doom Spike spam; invigorate when needed; more Doom Spike until you need to refresh Heavy Thrust; then Heavy Thrust-Ring of Thorns; of course weaving Dragonfire Dive in when IR and B4B are up.
Once you get down to 250TP, you should do single-target on the highest health enemy and single-target the rest down.
_______
Let's take the 10 target test again.
HT->RoT=1670 Potency
Doom Spike can be used 5-6 times before needing to refresh HT.
Your TP limits you to only using it a max of 10-11 times before you need to stop (DRG isn't the best AOE of course).
So let's say you do as many "reps" of HT-RoT-DS spam as you can until you hit 200-250 TP:
17670 potency on 10 mobs; casting Doom Spike 10 times; HT->RoT twice.

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