Why Speed Pulls?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

No... you are just trying to seek an answer you want to hear vs the reality of the bigger picture. . .

What you want to hear is that SR = more skilled players and that Speedrunning = skill... and that is not the case. . .

What I provided was a proper answer to your question, just because it's not what you want to hear does not make it unacceptable...

This is exactly what I noted several times already too. I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees it.

[Sousoulsu]

This is exactly what I noted several times already too. I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees it.

I've already addressed this sentiment.
The point of this topic is not player skill. But since the subject came up, I felt beholden to address it.

I've only ever ignored sentiments that are outwardly hostile, or that fail to address something I actually said (as opposed to something you perceived I said).

If you'd like to continue the correlation between skill and people who opt not to speedrun, we can. That's on you. I simply addressed something that came up without my even mentioning it.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Which of these two requires a more skilled group than the other?
-Doing single-pulls, or
-Doing multiple pulls

My opinion on this is that the greater skill is shown from knowing when to do either.

If you have a SCH, a DRG and a MNK it's probably not a good idea to pull full floors how ever if you have a White Mage, a Black Mage, and a Bard it's almost a waste of potential to pull lest than at least half the floor per pull since they're potential is wasted on single targets.

It also shows good judgment for the Tank to consider the capabilities of the healer and DPS through an examination of gear and seeing if they feel that their skill is up to SRing.

No one should be forced to do either but efficiency always achieves faster runs than failures cause by stubbornness and clashing Egos. And no matter what the player's preference efficiency is one thing every one should be looking for. Just SRing isn't ALWAYS the most efficient method but again the real skill is shown by being able to pick the most efficient method and A DPS/Healer should have already recognized the same just by the party make up. If any one has an objection to a "Normal Run" for that team setup then it should be discussed before pulling which, at most, would only add about 10s to the run. (30s with Consol/slow PC typers)

[Sousoulsu]

My opinion on this is that the greater skill is shown from knowing when to do either.

If you have a SCH, a DRG and a MNK it's probably not a good idea to pull full floors how ever if you have a White Mage, a Black Mage, and a Bard it's almost a waste of potential to pull lest than at least half the floor per pull since they're potential is wasted on single targets.

It also shows good judgment for the Tank to consider the capabilities of the healer and DPS through an examination of gear and seeing if they feel that their skill is up to SRing.

No one should be forced to do either but efficiency always achieves faster runs than failures cause by stubbornness and clashing Egos. And no matter what the player's preference efficiency is one thing every one should be looking for. Just SRing isn't ALWAYS the most efficient method but again the real skill is shown by being able to pick the most efficient method and A DPS/Healer should have already recognized the same just by the party make up. If any one has an objection to a "Normal Run" for that team setup then it should be discussed before pulling which, at most, would only add about 10s to the run. (30s with Consol/slow PC typers)

Well put. Judgment and situational awareness are quantifiable traits of skill in a player.

SR don't really require the use of CD's... I've done SR's with both my 110 WAR & PLD without really using cooldowns at all except on some boss fights or if I herpderp miss an AoE telegraph.



Nope, not grasping straws or sidestepping anything. I'm a realist that sees it for what it is and I don't call a player bad because they don't agree with speedrunning, nor do I force it upon anyone...



I've said it once, wait twice, wait three times... Hell I lost count. Anyway I will say it again. SR is governed by gear and is a matter of preference. The ONLY time I'd say it's considered skillful is if the tank that does the SR is at minimal req lvl and applies his/her mind to it and succeeds at doing it as if he/she were overgeared for the specific dungeon.



Thank you for proving my point.

Speedruns do not require the use of Tank cooldowns?
Our definitions for "speedrun" must be different. If you try to do the pull in WP(Hard) after the first pull past the first boss (the 4-pack pull with 3 mages) without cooldowns, you will die and there will be nothing a healer can do about it.

I've never called a player bad for refusing to speedrun.
I simply stated that I observe poor play from the players I've played with who do not want to speedrun.

Speedrunning is equal parts gear as it is skill.
You cannot attempt a speedrun without a certain degree of gear (most of the time; I healed tanks in i90 gear in the new dungeons that did huge pulls just fine).
You cannot do a successful speedrun if the group is not competent enough to do so. If the healer doesn't know how much damage to expect in each volley of melee swings; if they spam Holy too many times; if they don't know when they should benediction; if they choose a poor time to e4e (drawing aggro to themselves before tank can get it) - then a speedrun will not be successful.

You are cherrypicking my posts and trying to pull a one-liner that you feel proves your point without context for the quote. That is dishonest, and frankly makes me think considerably less of you. I have been forthright and amicable in all of my posts, despite the namecalling and kneejerks I've gotten.
It's unfortunate the same isn't afforded to me. This community seems nice, but it's really passive-aggressive.

Since your points are flawed, I'll stop replying to you until such a time as you come up with a fresh argument to take to me. There simply isn't enough substance to your posts. Just cherrypicking and misreadings of my posts.

[DenebPunkin]

I appreciate your response, but it is not an answer to the question I posed - and I have a feeling you're sidestepping the question.
A completely unskilled group will fall flat on its face from the get-go.
What I asked is:

Both require the same skill. Bigger pulls means the tanks have to pop more CDs, and healers actually have to throw more heals instead of throwing a heal... waiting a few mins and throwing them again. The difference is you have to be a little more alert.