Why Speed Pulls?

[Galgarion]

As far as tanking goes, imo I think WAR is harder that PLD because they burn through their TP so fast. I found it almost impossible to play as MAR/WAR with out cross classing flash from GLD/PLD and Invigorate from LNC/DRG.

Warrior's and pally's have around the same level of difficulty once you spend enough time on both. I never really understood the argument that warriors somehow had more depth just because they have a couple more combos. They're both simple classes to play, and anyone arguing against that probably drives a pickup truck with bronze testicles hanging off the back.

[Iagainsti]

Warrior's and pally's have around the same level of difficulty once you spend enough time on both. I never really understood the argument that warriors somehow had more depth just because they have a couple more combos. They're both simple classes to play, and anyone arguing against that probably drives a pickup truck with bronze testicles hanging off the back.

My only argument is Overpower is a cone shaped Aoe, where Flash is Circular. Easier for a Pally to run into a patch, flash, grab everything, where Overpower requires a level of finesse to line mobs up for the Ovepower burst combos.

[Iagainsti]

As far as tanking goes, imo I think WAR is harder that PLD because they burn through their TP so fast. I found it almost impossible to play as MAR/WAR with out cross classing flash from GLD/PLD and Invigorate from LNC/DRG.

Flash Crossclass is soo 2.2. You even lift, Brauh? ;P

[Kaiser-Ace]

Flash Crossclass is soo 2.2. You even lift, Brauh? ;P

Dude I haven't USED Warrior since 2.2 lol. Been trying to clear coil and finish relics with my Dragoon since I only use my main class for raids any way. Other than Dragoon and Paladin I don't even have any other lvl 50s. And I only lvled Pld because my FC at the time was short on them and helped my speed level it.

[Iagainsti]

As far as tanking goes, imo I think WAR is harder that PLD because they burn through their TP so fast. I found it almost impossible to play as MAR/WAR with out cross classing flash from GLD/PLD and Invigorate from LNC/DRG.

If you haven't played Warrior, explain the basis of this opinion?

[Kaiser-Ace]

If you haven't played Warrior, explain the basis of this opinion?

Uh I did play warrior. Back when I was picking Raid Alts. I picked PLD over Warrior cause I thought warrior was slow and difficult to manage for my playstyle. I also picked White Mage over Scholar for the superior Support, Summoner over Black Mage because I despise the way BLM operates, and Bard over Monk as my Alt Melee DPS because I think Monk is less versatile than bard and a far bigger Glass Cannon than my Dragoon. Although I've started REALLY liking Ninja so I'm leveling it too.

Point is I didn't like WAR because I thought it was more difficult to play properly and far to slow in TP recovery considering how fast it runs out of it. I have favorite classes, deal with it. The ones I don't favor I don't typically play.

[Brill_]

After 35 runs of snowcloak, I noticed speed pulls don't make much of a difference. I was in groups that did big pulls and groups that did smaller pulls. The difference in each section was about 1 minute. The real time sink was bosses. Groups with lower geared dps took longer to kill the bosses.

[Sousoulsu]

After 35 runs of snowcloak, I noticed speed pulls don't make much of a difference. I was in groups that did big pulls and groups that did smaller pulls. The difference in each section was about 1 minute. The real time sink was bosses. Groups with lower geared dps took longer to kill the bosses.

While the difference may be skewed by different gear levels / damage output in the groups you're comparing, it's definetely true that some dungeons yield higher time gains than others when doing large pulls.
The large pulls in Snowcloak (First pack to Bear Gate before bombs of first boss; Goobue ice sprite and Ogre pull before second boss) do shave a large amount of time off though.

[KisaiTenshi]

I've been going through each hard dungeon one by one just to clear them from the journal log.

In every dungeon, every tank does try to speed pull, though some ask first.

My suggestion is that if you are appropriately geared or overgeared, A WHM or SCH should be able to keep up with a tank provided that:
a) The tank has all the enmity and keeps it.
b) The DPS are not Melee type. And the both the Tank and the DPS avoid AOE's

If the tank kinda sucks, then they shouldn't be trying any kind of mass pull. If the DPS are under-geared or can't get out of the way of the AOE, then they won't kill the mobs fast enough for the healer to save the Tank from being killed.

The most efficient use of MP for a WHM is to use only Cure I until a freecure pops then use Cure II, but masspulls inevitably require spamming Cure II on top of Regen which burns MP faster and causes Enmity to raise quickly.If the WHM has to do the full Devine Seal+Presence of mind+Magica II before Regen and Cure's, then the tank is pulling too much and will have trouble keeping enmity.

So parties really have two options for speed pulling:
a) Healer Race - Where the Tank has to hold enmity while the healer spams healing spells. A wipe will happen if the Tank dies or loses enmity.
b) DPS Race - Where everyone uses AOE's including the healer to prevent the mobs from moving or doing damage.

If you have Melee DPS, then you're better off not speed pulling, as the healer will not have time to heal them. From experience, as a healer, the largest pull possible is determined by how large the mobs combined AOE is. If they only have linear AOE's then you can still do a large pull. If they are center-AOE's then Melee DPS will not be able to deal with multiple AOE circles without taking damage and still dealing damage.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

So long as we (the community as a whole) treat speed runs as a mandatory requirement and not as an option, (a popular option), we will continue to foster and at best, sloppily patch up player inability in dungeons as a whole.

To be fair, it's no one's job to teach another how to play their role right or even how to speed run, but it'd be hard to disagree that speed and learning don't usually go hand in hand, especially in dungeons.