Why Speed Pulls?

[Maero]

I have no issues with speed pulls, IF the tank can actually keep agro.
Soooo many tanks think they are op or whatever because hey they are ilv130 so that's automatically good for speed pulls right?
Which btw those such players probably got geared up from doing hunts and have not actually learned how to play their class.
To the tanks that can keep agro though, i applaud them and it sure saves time and makes up for the 30+ minutes i usually wait in queue for.

[Iagainsti]

I have no issues with speed pulls, IF the tank can actually keep agro.
Soooo many tanks think they are op or whatever because hey they are ilv130 so that's automatically good for speed pulls right?
Which btw those such players probably got geared up from doing hunts and have not actually learned how to play their class.
To the tanks that can keep agro though, i applaud them and it sure saves time and makes up for the 30+ minutes i usually wait in queue for.

You're welcome. Main tanking FFXIV content since 2013. #Warrior4Life. I feel for you all when wannabe tanks are your df partners. Tanking 101; face mobs away from party. Aggro control trumps all. Once you have hate management and damage mitigation to a science, then focus on how you can increase your dps to help the party.

[Iagainsti]

Speed run tanking 101. Tell party to chill until position is attained. Featherfoot>Foresight and pull all mobs to gate. Face all trash away from party, positon all trash within AOE ranges, Thrill of Battle>Convalescence>Infuriate>Overpower to hold hate>Bloodbath>Internal Release>Berserk>Overpower spam for self heal, huge aoe damage(I crit for 500 average per mob at 25% heal- more mobs more HP healed)>Vengeance to keep stacks and nullify 30% of incoming damage>Overpower until you run out of tp, by then featherfoot and foresight are back up, pop them and let the dps finish the pack. Save Second Wind and Holmgang in the slight chance shit hits said fan.

I'll let a propally fill in their rotation.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Sousoulsu. . . That intent to discredit me, are you?

That IS me, that was fun, and that was never attempted until then. When I did those videos, I didn't practice first, I didn't go in crunching numbers and attempting to optimize anything. I went in with the pure intent of seeing if it could be done. And it could. And I did. And it was a blast. Oh and THAT time I was the most undergeared in my party. NT Lost City was mine too.

Now then, let's refute a few things, since we're really down to just nitpicking here:

-Refreshing DoTs on an enemy that will die within seconds (many times)
Did it die? Yes. Was that efficient? No. Did the party survive? Yes. Good. Job done /tossout
-Not refreshing DoTs after they've fallen off a boss enemy until 3+GCDs later
Was I stressing that? Nope. Not in the least. Did we win? Yes. Did the party survive? ACTUALLY. . . Our healer died at the first boss due to RL distraction, and I died at the second (both were edited, obviously). Would you have known that had I not told you? No. Does it really matter? No. /tossout
-Using AoE skills at below the number of enemies that would make them worth using
I wanna facepalm at this SO BAD. . . Remember, no-tank. No aggro tools. Wide Volley essentially was my aggro tool. Was I worried about how many were "worth using" the skill on? Nope. That's just garbage, honestly. Oh, but it worked, so /tossout.
-getting hit by AoEs
/slaphand BAD LACE! You got hit by an AoE! How dare you! #worstplayerever


Seriously. . . /tossout
-tank-turning (controller)
^ Is this even a critical point?! Why yes, I DO play on PS4. I made the entire video on my PS4. I like my PS4. It's a wonderful system isn't it? PS4!
Also, despite prior claims, you do not keep aggro consistantly while no-tanking. It's unfeasible to expect, but you claimed you did. And you do not.
Um. . .actually, I DIDN'T claim that. Please don't put words in my mouth. And lest we forget, Bard: No aggro tools. Also, better geared BLM and WHM in party. Didn't bother me, didn't bother them. And largely if I lost em, I either got em right back or the BLM made short work of them. Did he complain? Nope. He was along for the ride, enjoying it like we all did.

You missed one: I don't think I played any songs there either. #badbard

Now is this the part where you nitpick that because it was an unorthodox fun run - UNREHEARSED and UNPLANNED - we're all terrible and inefficient and bad players? Because I'll just say this: Where's YOUR video? (<---- This is rhetorical. I'm not interested in any videos you might have. But thanks for the free publicity for mine. I'll have to get around to that Stone Vigil HM one soon. . . I'll be sure to miss a few DoTs just for you <3)

Seriously though, is your argument reduced to this now? Petty attempts to defame me? You're better than that. At least I'd like to believe so. You've had some valid points even, regardless of whether I agree or not, but this. . . this is disappointing. I'd be offended if I didn't actually find it kinda funny. So let me say this: No, I don't parse, I don't run numbers, and I don't ensure my every move and attack is an efficient, optimal action at the exact perfect moment. I'll even eat the occasional AoE (though I do get a thrill dodging those, at least when I do <3). I'll push out every last bit of DPS I can with whatever TP I have, wipe all damn day and even sacrifice myself to try and help a party member (ugh, WoD 5 Head dragon memories). I will put my party first - like it or not - and IF I'm tanking do my absolute best to hold the bloody line. My job isn't to be the best. My job is to do what's best for my party and keep them alive, and I'm damn good at that, regardless of the weapon in my hand or the role I'm playing at that given moment. And I don't need to speedrun to prove that.

But again, thanks for the free publicity. Mind linking the Lost City vid too? I quite enjoyed that little trip down memory lane.

[Sousoulsu]

I can tank as a Bard - a class with no enmity tools and far less defense, and have done so MANY times. . . That's an indication I'm an EXCELLENT tank.

Claiming that you can tank implies you can hold aggro. You could not.
If you're referring to your ability to stay alive with aggro as a Bard, that's entirely on your healer and BLM who gave you Apocatastasis.
...But that's not really the point though.

If that video is how you usually play, I can freely say that you are not what most would consider to be a good player.
Good players find no difficulty in maintaining a high average caliber of play.
They do not refresh dots when the target will die before they are useful.
They do not forget to execute.
They do not forget to use cooldowns.
They do not move sluggishly and unoptimally (controller or no).
They do not try to bind things then instantly break them free of it with their next GCD.
They do not use AoE spells when it is in-optimal to use them.
They do not find dodging highly-telegraphed AoEs(first boss) any degree of difficult.


This is all simply a response to the post you made trying to quantify yourself as a good player. I am not making an effort to discredit you out of nowhere. You made the claim that you are a good player. I am using that video as evidence that you are not as good a player as you claimed. That is the long and short of it. No malice, no ire.

Since I make no claim as to my own personal skill as a player, I do not feel as though a video of mine would be relevant.
You brought your own personal skill into the discussion when it was not relevant. I do not feel off-base by citing that video as evidence to the contrary of what you claimed.

You are not alone. But, most people a) do not use the forum b) do not like to post in these kind of topcis. Why? Sousoulso. Just an example.

Whatever someone sais: False, incorrect, personal opinion, wrong, not true [..]
Whatever he sais: Correct, maybe personal opinion -> STILL CORRECT, only valid opinion he accepts.

Its like explaining someone who killed T13 that not all non-raiders are bad players. You cant. They simply do not accept the fact that there are players out there who simply like to play other parts of the game / in a different way.

I've been entirely cordial in all of my responses. I post in a straightforward way, and back the way I think up with examples.
You can disagree with me freely, but I have not seen any example given as to -why- you hold the opinion that you do.

All I really see from you when you post is uncalled-for personal attacks and general rudeness.
Since you haven't really brought any argument to the discussion from the outset, I will stop replying to you as I stopped replying to Zedd until you come up with a valid, well-thought-out argument.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Let me first begin with a massive eyeroll. . .

You interpreted my "I can tank as a Bard" statement as "I can consistently keep aggro with no enmity tools", and that's not what I said. Had I meant that, I'd have said that. Please don't read between the lines when there's nothing there. Oh and this might just be my "inefficient", "non-optimal" BLM experience talking (this is stated retro-actively to a later statement here) but doesn't Apocatastasis defend against magic attacks? Didn't see a whole lot of magic going on there. And yes, my healer kept me alive. . . good healer! Moving on:

Good players find no difficulty in maintaining optimal DPS. Neither do I. By the same token, I neither live or die by it either.
They do not refresh dots when the target will die before they are useful. DoTs or not, those ARE my attacks too. So then, what? Heavy Shot til it's dead? *eyeroll*
They do not forget to execute. #notperfect Sue me. *eyeroll* (P.S., yes they do. Dat human element tho. . .)
They do not forget to use cooldowns. And yet somehow I survived AND managed to kill my enemies. Whew!
They do not move sluggishly and unoptimally (controller or no). HA! This is just stupid. Sorry. It really is.
They do not try to bind things then instantly break them free of it with their next GCD. You're right. That's why I stopped using that. Don't even have it on my hotbar anymore.
They do not use AoE spells when it is in-optimal to use them. Unless you're referring to the BLM, who I won't make any comment on (purely because I didn't know anything BLM related until recently when I finally decided to level the class myself), I didn't see any spells cast from me there. . . And yes, I know you know that I know what you meant, but if we're really gonna split hairs, then let's take it there.
They do not find dodging highly-telegraphed AoEs(first boss) any degree of difficult. I'm sorry, what role was I essentially filling? And what do tanks normally do? Oh yeah, take hits that the rest of the party generally shouldn't take. Oh, but I suppose that'd be considered an excuse for getting hit once or twice (guess what else I wasn't counting?) I otherwise weave in and out of things so much I ought to go in as a Weaver. My ability to dodge things (is rather unorthodox if not a bit risky) is something I'm actually quite proud of. Especially under NORMAL circumstances. But hey, #notperfect. Find me someone who is. (Don't actually do this. I'm now convinced you probably would)

But hey, go ahead and try to accurately judge me from a 7 month old video I made for fun. Was it hard? No. Did any of us play "efficiently" or "optimize [insert one-sided reasoning to sustain an argument here]"? Nope. We went in to make a video clearing Halatali HM with no tank. And we did. And it was fun. <----- Hey look, it's that word again. "Fun". That thing I like to prioritize over efficiency and optimal anything for everything. You want to prove I'm not good. I get that. You WANT to be right. I get that. I do. But fact is you've derailed an entire argument just to try and discredit one player. You're wrong for that alone. And rather petty. Yet delightful in your pettiness.

Oh and THEN there's the playing nice and trying the "Since you're not bringing a well thought out argument to the table, I'm done replying to you" bit. Sorry, buddy. No bowing out gracefully. This isn't one of your "optimal", efficient setups. And this is definitely not MY first rodeo, let alone Zedd's or plenty of others. If you can't handle a little bit of inefficiency or work outside of optimal conditions, who's really the bad - I'm sorry, "not so good" player here?

P.S. Nice edit BTW. I've captured the original statement and will not change it. As for your "higher caliber", subjective nature aside, I'm confident enough in my own abilities, now more than 7 months ago. But sure, use that. Keep trying to defame me. Speaks in volumes of your own caliber.

[Sousoulsu]

snip

You inadvertently prove my point: You believe that when a good player is relaxed, they play poorly. This is not the case. It takes little to no effort to do things as simple as not refresh dots on a target that is about to die without any real thought on the player's part. Yes, you -are- supposed to Steady Shot when the mob is about to die. Not re-DoT it.
That bit alone disproves any backpedaling you're trying to do.

I'm not at all faking my civility. I don't really feel anything about you one way or the other. Whether or not you're a good or bad player means nothing to me. You brought your personal skill into the discussion, and I addressed it. And you are upset by the manner in which I addressed it. While it's fair to be upset, it doesn't make my observations any less accurate.
Do keep in mind, it was you who brought up your personal skill. There is no sense in being upset at me for following your line of discussion.


I think you should take the opportunity to "bow out gracefully", yourself. You have nothing to provide to the discussion. You've stated your opinion. I've inquired as to how you come to that opinion. You reply with "because". That is not a substantial reason. Since you seem to have nothing more to contribute to the topic, now would be the time to withdraw; especially considering it's a self-admitted sore subject for you.

Take Spooke's advice and let it go. Your approach was flawed from the start.

[Spoekes]

Hey Lace, really like your posts on the forum, enjoy them on other topics very much.

This discussion however, you, Zedd and some other poster crossed the line with arguments like how slower pulling takes the party more skill and so on.
This was really unneccessary, left a bad taste and has been shot down by the others, for valid reasons you should have seen coming.

Not liking SRs is your opinion and everyone has to accept that.

I would just stop here and not go on discussing your skill on a 'professional' basis over a video obviously done for fun - with a stranger you never played with.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Where's Ellatrix? Can we get him back here? I liked him. He was at least, honestly mean and elitist.

This one's stuck on the faux-civil approach and petty tangents.

Hey Lace, really like your posts on the forum, enjoy them on other topics very much.

This discussion however, you, Zedd and some other poster crossed the line with arguments like how slower pulling takes the party more skill and so on.
This was really unneccessary, left a bad taste and has been shot down by the others, for valid reasons you should have seen coming.

Not liking SRs is your opinion and everyone has to accept that.

I would just stop here and not go on discussing your skill on a 'professional' basis over a video obviously done for fun - with a stranger you never played with.

You know, you're absolutely right, and I'm a bit embarrassed I'm up at 5AM carrying on like this. How inefficient of me! (Last dig, I promise!) But you are correct. I can't rightly say anymore that SRs require more or less of a player, but I can say that I just don't enjoy them. I find them boring, and generally try to avoid having to do it or being forced to do it. And leave it at that.

[JonBigwood]

When you play with people you don't know you usually have to adapt to each other, and the circumstances. This may mean trying to go quicker, or the opposite, waiting a bit for people who go slower, or slowing a bit to make things go smoother.

Usually people want to do the dungeons as fast as possible, so as a tank I try to go as fast as I think the group can go, or myself. Only if you tank the same dungeon many times and it hasn't passed a lot of time, you know for sure what groups of mobs can be killed together and what isn't worth it, so I sometimes don't try to group if I don't remember well what comes next.

I don't care if people pull more mobs to make the groups bigger, it may make things faster, I tank them too and nearly always it goes fine.

As it has been said, you may meet nasty people. The great majority of people are nice, but some are not and there's the chance to meet them. Some claim for a speed run and cannot kill the mobs quickly enough for the tank to survive, or cannot heal, or cannot tank that many mobs.