Why Speed Pulls?

[Rasylia]

People have different playtyles. Some play for raids. Some play for roleplaying. Some play for low end content. Other play to do gathering / crafting. Others play just for fun, play for glamour.
Everyone has a different reason.
Everyone likes to do it another way.
Noone has the right to force anyone to play the way he likes.

If i want to do masspulls, i check if a) my group can handle it b) if they want to.
If i dont want to do masspulls, i dont do it.
If you want masspulls - play as tank.

/over and out. Discussing stuff with this guy is complete waste of time. For hi m there is no indivuduality, only numbers, his own opinion and how much time he can win by speedrunning everything.

[Faelandaea]

Okay I read the OP but the first few replies made me just skip the rest. So I'll just give my 2 gil and move on . . .

As a healer, a GOOD healer, that is (no ego here, really), I completely respect and honor what the tank wants to do. I go at the pace that the tank is comfortable with. Why? because I am the one responsible for healing him, and the tank knows what he is comfortable with pulling. I also LOVE it when the tank, who knows they set the pace, ASKS the group "Hey, guys, are you comfortable with speed pulls or . . . ?" Me, personally, am confident as a healer and I'll tell the tank they can go as fast or as slow as they want - I'll heal through it. Really this is a convo between healer and tank because DPS should be able to deal with whatever we do - all they need to do is DPS so it doesn't matter - but as long as the tank and healer are comfortable with the pull rate and damage ratios, all is well in the run. Like it or not, the tank is in charge, and the healer is like the first officer of the ship, with the DPS being the rest of the crew.

If folks want a speed run, they have no right to be in the DF. They need to grab one of the 200 friends they have crammed into their friend list (seriously, this is a SOCIAL game - if you don;t have friends uninstall now and go play a single player game or PvP game like CoD where friends are never needed), or grab FC mates, or maybe even use the PF to pre-form a party that communicates BEFORE the queue and agrees on a pull speed. If you DF, you go with the flow - period - end of story.

When i queue up in DF for a random PUG, I expect to go at the rate the party goes at - meaning the tank's pull rate. I am always pleasantly surprised to heal through a speed run, but I always EXPECT a slow run if I use the DF. That's just common sense.

There's my 2 gil. Now on to waste more time during this maintenance

[Staris]

As a healer, a GOOD healer,

Hahahahahahaha

after reading that, didn't even have to read the rest.

[Faelandaea]

Hahahahahahaha

after reading that, didn't even have to read the rest.

Hehe well I had to troll a LITTLE bit. In all seriousness though, tank and healer decide the pace, DPS go pew pew, if folks want speed runs preform a party and stay the hell away from the DF - end of story.

[Mykll]

Come on patch, you done yet? .... By the way, you can start downloading now.....


Well I do appreciate Sousoulsu replying to me without resorting to any name calling or anything derogatory.

Tanks SHOULD be making an attempt to use their defensive cooldowns. Especially PLD, they have so dang many of them. Use the most optimum rotation of them regardless of size of pull, no, but even on small pulls, at least make an attempt. Show especially your healer you know they exist.

I sort of keep track of abilities that have been used, but I don't necessarily go as far as changing how I pull, depending on what cooldowns I noticed the group use. That is what I took as what you wrote initially, that you pay attention to what has been used and change your pulls accordingly. Maybe I did not understand that. I know I am wired differently, as an example on Eye for an Eye, if I am someone that can use that, and someone else in the group can use it, if they use theirs first I won't use mine on the tank as soon as theirs wears off. I check the debuff on the mob, if it still has it, and only when that debuff wears off, do I then give mine to the tank. Little things like that. To me it is like re-casting regen when regen still has half it's time left.

That makes sense about managing agro, making sure everything is hit and on the tank so the healer can start to do something. As a tank, it annoys me when the healer casts regen right before a pull, and as a healer it annoys me when the tank smacks one thing and then runs off to the next pack, proximity only agro mobs in tow. Then he needs a heal, and I still see a bunch of orange names that haven't turned red yet.

Yes if you have your WHM stunning, you have some extra seconds. More often than not, you have no idea what your group is going to do once you pull. They can say they are ready for large pulls, but you have no idea if that healer is ready to dps, ready to purely heal the large spikes, or what. Most of the time I can't count on that extra stun time (either WHM won't, or the stunnable DPS jobs fire their off right away, greatly shortening the overall stunned time on a few mobs) and if that NIN gets some lucky opening crits he can tear something off me. It seems at times DPS popping their cooldowns can overpower what Flash is able to hold.

I read your comments as saying without the PLD Shield Swipe, and without getting that Halone 10% STR debuff on exactly the right mob, then large pulls are impossible. So that is why I brought up WAR. They don't have either and can still do it. Not talking about the overall time inside the dungeon, just talking about surviving those hits from a mob that is not Pacified or STR debuffed. I probably took your comments wrong on that.

I LOVE dungeons. I live inside them. I leveled everything up inside dungeons. My favorite time in any game is running a dungeon with a group of people. I love co-op, don't care much for PVP. There is a point down the road. Someone, and I'm too lazy to go back to find it, was asking exactly why someone doesn't care for speed runs. I can do speed runs as any role I am just not comfortable with them. Maybe more of a bad taste in my mouth, thanks to WoW. WoW began nerfing the crap out of their dungeons. Sunken Temple was it that I think 3 complete floors were removed from it? Blackrock Depths, where the "finish line" was put almost right inside the entrance, so groups would speed run to that and leave. Many more dungeons were dumbed down to an AOE zerg fest tunnel run. People with bad attitudes would talk crap about my gear, whether normal or heroics. Why? I can use that dungeon for gear upgrades, but because I was not so over geared for the place I would constantly be railed against. Thank you Gear Score. The many great tactics of yester-year, Warlock or Hunter pet off-tanking, Hunter CC traps, Rogue sap, Mage polymorph, Priest undead root, you would be laughed at, talked down to if you used any of those. Why? Nothing but an AOE zerg fest.

Which is what my great fear was all the time leveling up in FFXIV. Ok, there are no "plows" in this game, great, but will those attitudes come back at level 50 when we start over gearing places? See Speed Runs and Hunts for your answer. Or all the times like CM, where groups will almost demand that a new player be present for the bonus, but not let that player really experience the cut scenes and the fights.

When I used to play D&D Online, I loved how they did dungeons. Extra EXP for smashing things, extra EXP for killing over a certain number or percentage of mobs, extra EXP for rogue stuff like traps, etc.

So, why do I have a bad taste in my mouth for Speed Runs and Hunts, other than some of the attitudes some may encounter during those times in this game? Goes right back to WoW. There is my valid reason, for me.

[Sousoulsu]

So, why do I have a bad taste in my mouth for Speed Runs and Hunts, other than some of the attitudes some may encounter during those times in this game? Goes right back to WoW. There is my valid reason, for me.

I read everything you typed, but this particular bit stands out the most to me.
I agree that in other games, Speedrunning would annoy me in random groups because some of those dungeons are actually threatening the way they were intended to be done.
With WoW, there are now Challenge Mode dungeons for people to speedrun if they want to.

Your sentiment rounds off your opinion nicely; but the way XIV dungeons are designed is the reason I don't think anti-Speedrun sentiments hold any water. If trash were threatening and had interesting mechanics and the dungeon designers trusted players to be at least a little competent, speedrunning would be much less of a thing.
That said, I can understand the sentiment of speedrunning being bad, thinking back to games that actually had interesting/challenging/mechanic-heavy non-boss content in dungeons.

[Kraktur]

The way I see it, for many dungeons tanks need to wait 5s to enter their duty, healers too, while DPS may have to wait more than 30min.
If the tank doesn't want to rush then: either 2 DPS need to kick him or 1 healer 1 DPS. As a result they'll have to wait a long time for a new tank to join their party. Or they can comply with the tank's rules because they want to finish that dugeon even if it lasts 5 more minutes

Basically, you have power over them, so do what you please as a tank. It doesn't matter if you think your decision is good or bad or that it doesn't even have a meaning to talk about good or bad, it's just that you are stronger and you decide...

Seriously, I'm a BLM and I have been abused many times by stupid tanks/healers and whatever I think, I just have to deal with it.

I could now tell you what I think about these attitudes but it would only be talking about human nature vs human ideals. Don't get me started :P

[Zedd702]

Choosing for a dungeon to fail when it is within your power to make it succeed? That sounds like [Harassment] :3c

Nice try toots. You did that when you decided to put the tank shoes on the band-aid of the team... Don't blame the tank because you decided to step out of your role for your own selfish reasons. Play your role, not mine. If you want to tank as the healer, feel free, just give me a few seconds to pop some popcorn and get my drink, because that will be a very entertaining show.

Oh and feel free to vote kick me as a tank, because I'm sure you'll find another as soon as I'm gone and I would not hesitate to file my own report...

Harassment works in many ways...

[Steady]

Dungeons are time consuming. If you've ran it more than once, and your gear is worth a darn, you should atleast pull mobs 2 groups at a time. Anything less is just silly.

[Zedd702]

Dungeons are time consuming. If you've ran it more than once, and your gear is worth a darn, you should atleast pull mobs 2 groups at a time. Anything less is just silly.

To be quite honest, this is actually habit for me (pulling two groups at once), unless I see that the healer is under-geared or inexperienced or if I, myself, am under-geared in comparison to the rest of the team so that I don't lose hate. But again that would be my call as tank to decide that...