Time to address long queue times for low level players

[magdahmhara]

The real question is: Why the hell is low-level roulette a 60-minute wait when WoD and expert take 5-10 minutes tops as a DPS?

There's an obvious incentive distribution problem going on when players just don't want to do LL roulette.

Because you only get the tome bonus once per day. Gil is easier to get elsewhere than running LL roulette.

[Gardes]

Is there just no joy in that for anyone anymore?

They find joy on their own terms. It's not like you're entirely selfless, you know? You're doing what you do to make yourself feel good, evidenced by saying you get satisfaction out of it. You're feeding your own need, regardless of what the avenue is. I'm not trying to offend here, I could argue that the issue you're lamenting is kinda...first world problems tier? Like, why not actually do something for a worthy cause in real life if you get satisfaction from being a samaritan?

[Eye_Gore]

But you get the "role in need" bonus everytime you enter the roulette.

I don't really need that, I do it just for tomes, as do others I'm sure.

[Riviere]

Only by increasing the number of DPS slots in low level dungeons will queues improve, and probably only a little bit. There are too many DPS.

[Kosmos992k]

They find joy on their own terms. It's not like you're entirely selfless, you know? You're doing what you do to make yourself feel good, evidenced by saying you get satisfaction out of it. You're feeding your own need, regardless of what the avenue is. I'm not trying to offend here, I could argue that the issue you're lamenting is kinda...first world problems tier? Like, why not actually do something for a worthy cause in real life if you get satisfaction from being a samaritan?

You can hardly argue "first world problems" in relation to playing a video game....LOL! I'm not trying to offend anyone either, I am just honestly surprised by how little regard the satisfaction of helping others gets compared to the completely ephemeral 'material' rewards in a video game.

[LineageRazor]

Is there just no joy in that for anyone anymore?

Everyone has things they want to accomplish in this game, and only a certain number of hours per day available to accomplish those things. If queueing up specifically to help newbies brings you joy, that is wonderful, and more power to you. Not everyone is a born mentor, though; for many, possibly most people tutoring newbies is a chore, and not fun at all. If they're not going to be rewarded for doing it, they won't bother.

SE has good, solid experience with this phenominon from FFXI. While there were good, helpful people in that game, as there are in this one, there's just not enough to meet the need. For the longest time, FFXI had NO rewards for completing certain instances once you had already completed them, and newer folks trying to put together a party to do them had a horrendous time of it. They might be able to cobble together two or three sympethetic souls after a few hours, but most such instances needed a full party of six for a good chance of successs. This game's reward system has worked MIRACLES, compared to the situation in FFXI. People gripe about 30-40 minute queue times, but I have very literally spent entire days trying and failing to put together a party in FFXI for an unrewarding instance.

Don't mistake this mercenary attitude as meaning people are bad, or don't care. Even folks who wouldn't be signing up for low-level instances without the promise of reward are usually friendly and helpful toward the newbies. There are bad apples in the batch as well, but it's not only mean-spirited to harrass newbies, but also badly impacts the efficiency of the run. They want to get the run DONE, and abusing the other players is not going to help in that goal. Harrassment happens, but it's much less frequent than a lot of forum posts would have you believe.

Is that what constitutes as speed running? I thought it's tanks pulling multi packs regardless of what the healer had in mind? There are dungeons that have mobs that are out of the regular path way. If I pull mobs pack by pack but not pull mobs that are optional it's considered speed running?

It is one part of speed running, and the part that is most often seen in lower level dungeons. For the most part, lack of aoe abilities and lack of overpowered high-level gear makes multi-pack pulling in low level instances unproductive. I was trying to address the problem as it exists for low level players. I'll bet a lot of people even in this forum went a long time before they ever saw both paths in the Thousand Maws, and many have probably NEVER explored the optional branch by the second Magitek Gate. Most likely, many have never read the messages posted on the dungeon walls there, either, even though they present some cool flavor text for the dungeon.

[Gardes]

You can hardly argue "first world problems" in relation to playing a video game....LOL! I'm not trying to offend anyone either, I am just honestly surprised by how little regard the satisfaction of helping others gets compared to the completely ephemeral 'material' rewards in a video game.

Because I play video games to accomplish video game things. The good feeling I would get from doing what you do is a 'generic' feeling that I could get elsewhere much more efficiently and impact the person I'm helping much more. I can run out of my apartment right now and go buy food for a homeless person and get way more satisfaction in 10 minutes than I do from doing 3 low level roulettes just to help strangers get their daily exp bonus (that takes, what, 1 hour+?).

[Kosmos992k]

Everyone has things they want to accomplish in this game, and only a certain number of hours per day available to accomplish those things. *snip*

SE has good, solid experience with this phenominon from FFXI. While there were good, helpful people in that game, as there are in this one, there's just not enough to meet the need. *snip*This game's reward system has worked MIRACLES, compared to the situation in FFXI. People gripe about 30-40 minute queue times, but I have very literally spent entire days trying and failing to put together a party in FFXI for an unrewarding instance.

Don't mistake this mercenary attitude as meaning people are bad, or don't care. Even folks who wouldn't be signing up for low-level instances without the promise of reward are usually friendly and helpful toward the newbies. There are bad apples in the batch as well, but it's not only mean-spirited to harrass newbies, but also badly impacts the efficiency of the run.

Indeed, I understand how much worse it could be and that it's better because of the rewards, those rewards bring clear benefits. It's not so much the mercenary attitude, and of course wishing to be rewarded doesn't make anyone bad or good. I definitely agree about the bad apples, and forcing things in the low level dungeons is very counter productive as you say. I guess I just wish more people could apply a more utopian mindset where things like helping for the heck of it actually bring a sense of reward that is equal to that felt with a material gain. But, as you say, everyone has things that they want to accomplish and as Ashkendor said earlier, everyone has their reasons for playing as they do.

It is one part of speed running, and the part that is most often seen in lower level dungeons. For the most part, lack of aoe abilities and lack of overpowered high-level gear makes multi-pack pulling in low level instances unproductive. I was trying to address the problem as it exists for low level players. I'll bet a lot of people even in this forum went a long time before they ever saw both paths in the Thousand Maws, and many have probably NEVER explored the optional branch by the second Magitek Gate. Most likely, many have never read the messages posted on the dungeon walls there, either, even though they present some cool flavor text for the dungeon.

LOL! yes, indeed, I've explored the branches in dungeons including The Thousand Maws, I read the notices on the wall, I even read the quest text...They do add flavor, as so much of the game does - if people slow down enough to take a look, or smell the roses. Personally I find that the game has so much of this kind of thing that playing at a slower pace and enjoying everything as you go - including the NPC chatter and various 'flavor text' in the game, makes the game that much more enjoyable for me. Though I know not everyone will feel that way. it just seems a pity sometimes how quickly people do things and gloss over the finer details, when those details are part of what really makes the game what it is.

[Kosmos992k]

Because I play video games to accomplish video game things. The good feeling I would get from doing what you do is a 'generic' feeling that I could get elsewhere much more efficiently and impact the person I'm helping much more. I can run out of my apartment right now and go buy food for a homeless person and get way more satisfaction in 10 minutes than I do from doing 3 low level roulettes just to help strangers get their daily exp bonus (that takes, what, 1 hour+?).

I'm sure we all could, so why are we playing video games when we could be doing that? No, seriously, that counter argument is unanswerable since it is utterly outside the context of the discussion, and no one in their right mind would say that they could gain more satisfaction helping someone in a video game than helping someone IRL. I was talking about the comparative sense of reward generated by to alternate viewpoints and courses of conduct within the game. To be perfectly honest though, I feel like you're effectively belittling trying to be helpful with others in-game by casting it in contrast to helping people in real life - obviously helping people in the real world contrasts starkly against helping folks in a video game world.

I was simply asking why it seems that many people no longer value the intangible reward of satisfaction vs the in-game material reward.

[Ashkendor]

Well, you don't know me, but I do Q multiple times for low level roulette, not for the tomes though, just to help. Kind of paying it forward for all those that helped me in the past...

...Is there just no joy in that for anyone anymore?

There is, but not everyone helps in the same way. I do my own version of paying it forward with endgame content. Sometimes I jump into learning parties and clear parties for things like EX primals and SCoB to help out. I've even gone on FCoB clear runs, but not as often because it can't be till after my static is done for the week and it's inevitably a one-chest clear (some people aren't so keen on that). Sometimes my static runs farm nights where we put up a party finder stating "Need something cleared? We need your soldiery," valid for T1-8 and all EX primals. No charge for it aside from the soldiery bonus. Usually we end up with people that know the fights and have gotten them to sub-15% but just haven't found a group to put the nail in the coffin. :3