The problem with Summoners

[Akiza]

You can't claim everyone jumped from SMN to whatever basedon them not liking the job for what it is, that's just not true. Everyone has their own reasons, but the primary one is endgame. SMN just wasn't built for Final Coil and are now seeing it's flaws, hence people jumping. Last I checked, nobody is arguing against change, as in adjustments to it's current playstyle. The change you want is to feel like a special snowflake, summoning godlike beings, destroying stuff left and right. You've been whining for it since day one. Source material is just that: source material. How someone uses it depends on what they want to do with it.

And it's a bit of stretch to even presume the new jobs will be more interesting to SMN, let alone the rest of the jobs. A lot of people jumped to NIN, not all of them came from SMN. And I would gladly play the job I liked and not care what anyone says. I primarily played PUP in XI and played it well, despite its' weaknesses and I would do it again if I could.

It's not just Final Coils its all endgame content that is highlighting the weaknesses and technical issues with the Summoner. The Summoner has not kept up with current jobs in DPS and to make content more challenging its SE designed endgame with little down time, massive up time and mobs that need to be burned down quickly or cause a party wipe. This content design negatively affects Summoner directly. Unless SE wants to be forced to design content around the Summoner they should overhaul it to be AoE Bursts or at leasts make Pets AoE Bursts and do the majority of the damage.

[Vallhallix]

And just as Akiza cannot argue the reasons for people jumping ship, neither can you. Perhaps every single one of the people who quit playing summon quit because they don't like the horn on the AF.

While I don't necessarily agree with how Akiza wants summoner to be changed, it definitely needs one. The focus of the job should be on its... wait for it... summons.

I quit SMN because it felt really bland and I wasn't satisfied with its damage, and DPS classes with pets just are meh lol. SMN just feels really weak even compared to a BRD in PvP. Dots do nothing really that a healer can't heal the party from. I switched to BLM because not only are the spells better, but it just feels like BLM adds a lot more to the party in both end game and dungeons. You can't put a price on eliminating targets swiftly.

[Bigcat9715]

I quit SMN because it felt really bland and I wasn't satisfied with its damage, and DPS classes with pets just are meh lol. SMN just feels really weak even compared to a BRD in PvP. Dots do nothing really that a healer can't heal the party from. I switched to BLM because not only are the spells better, but it just feels like BLM adds a lot more to the party in both end game and dungeons. You can't put a price on eliminating targets swiftly.

Yup, in end game content and dungeons it's alot more effective to have a BLM and every other dps class (except Smn) rather than a SMN and every other dps class.

[Akiza]

Summoner needs to specialize in Aoe Bursts since DoT is useless in a game like this unless it's a secondary role like in the case of a Scholar. Enkindle's cool down should be reduced to 2min and the cool down should be tied to the pet instead of being a global cool down. Energy Drain shouldn't consume Aetherflow stacks. Summoner should be based on the Elementalist/Shaman in order to resemble the classic image of the Final Fantasy Summoner rather than a Necromancer.

[zeroaru]

<snip>

Summoner shouldn't be "X Job with a pet" at all, that restricts future implementation of said jobs and skews viability between classes. Summoner should be unique, even if that means it's a DoT class

<snip>
Titan, I feel definitely needs a Provoke. <snip>

I don't think Titan needs a provoke as much as he needs a cover, while he could serve as a temporary tank with a provoke this could lead to possible cleaves of melee DPS if the boss turns and titan is in a bad position or the provoke could not go off in time and be wasted. I would rather him act as a barrier to death for the MT maybe he could absorb 50% of incoming damage for X seconds every 3 minutes or something? I don't think he should ever be able to pull off a tank, people would troll with it.

[zeroaru]

Summoner needs to specialize in Aoe Bursts since DoT is useless in a game like this unless it's a secondary role like in the case of a Scholar. <snip>

DoTs aren't useless at all. DoTs are completely sustainable and extremely potent. I do much more damage than most in most I play with as a summoner in boss fights, regular upkeep of DoTs and consistent outgoing damage from pet/ruin is a viable source of DPS. Every class has DoTs in varying forms, and every class uses them in their rotation or suffers a loss of DPS.

True, an extra burst would be great for helping to eliminate a DPS check (titans heart/Forbidden portals/Plumes/nails etc) but a complete re-work and abandonment of the class isn't needed to achieve this, we might even get it in the expansion.

[Craiger]

Summoner needs to specialize in Aoe Bursts since DoT is useless in a game like this unless it's a secondary role like in the case of a Scholar. Enkindle's cool down should be reduced to 2min and the cool down should be tied to the pet instead of being a global cool down. Energy Drain shouldn't consume Aetherflow stacks. Summoner should be based on the Elementalist/Shaman in order to resemble the classic image of the Final Fantasy Summoner rather than a Necromancer.

Why is DoTs useless in this game?

Makes no sense that they should specialize in AoE burst... why would anyone bring you to a raid with that? If you need AoE(both burst and sustained), then BLM is light years ahead, and SE putting SMN ahead of BLM on AoE, would be the most stupid thing they could do.

SMN should be a job with high single target sustained DPS, while BLM is the AoE kings with high burst.

I see a lot of people who wants more AoE for SMN, but are all talking about dungeon runs or something? because it's not the lack of AoE that's causing the low amount of SMNs in raids...

[Akiza]

Why is DoTs useless in this game?

Makes no sense that they should specialize in AoE burst... why would anyone bring you to a raid with that? If you need AoE(both burst and sustained), then BLM is light years ahead, and SE putting SMN ahead of BLM on AoE, would be the most stupid thing they could do.

SMN should be a job with high single target sustained DPS, while BLM is the AoE kings with high burst.

I see a lot of people who wants more AoE for SMN, but are all talking about dungeon runs or something? because it's not the lack of AoE that's causing the low amount of SMNs in raids...

People want Summoner to have more AoE because SE stance on Melee having high single target sustained DPS while casters have low sustained single target damage. Also most modern MMORPGS since DCUO which have DoT classes give them 3-4 reliable AoE Bursts while DoTs are secondary. Most modern MMORPG s the Pet class is attached to the Sorceror.

[zeroaru]

People want Summoner to have more AoE because SE stance on Melee having high single target sustained DPS while casters have low sustained single target damage. <snip>

"People" =/= "akiza" ?

I don't want more AoE. I want bane spread limitation lifted but other than that I want to reliably maintain sustainable single target DPS above that of a BLM. BLM can keep the AoE crown, SMN doesn't need it.

You really need to stop comparing FFXIV to other MMOs. DCUO especially is a terrible example since even tanks are pointless in half of the end game. FFXIV is a different beast to be tamed in a different way. If you're going to contribute to threads like these please make it meaningful instead of "Summoner needs to be "X class" from "X title" because of "X traditional reason" but also needs to be like "X competitor MMO class". It's contradiction not construction.

XIV doesn't need to be a clone of other MMOs to appease you. You can just play other MMOs.

[Akiza]

"People" =/= "akiza" ?

I don't want more AoE. I want bane spread limitation lifted but other than that I want to reliably maintain sustainable single target DPS above that of a BLM. BLM can keep the AoE crown, SMN doesn't need it.

You really need to stop comparing FFXIV to other MMOs. DCUO especially is a terrible example since even tanks are pointless in half of the end game. FFXIV is a different beast to be tamed in a different way. If you're going to contribute to threads like these please make it meaningful instead of "Summoner needs to be "X class" from "X title" because of "X traditional reason" but also needs to be like "X competitor MMO class". It's contradiction not construction.

XIV doesn't need to be a clone of other MMOs to appease you. You can just play other MMOs.

People have been complaining about Summoner since day one do even if I stopped complaining 3 more people would take my place and complain aout the Summoner. DoT classes are useless in fast pace games like FFXIV because DPS can bursts enemies down before DoTs get their full duration which is a DPS loss to Summoner being mostly DoT. That's why for this game Summoner should be a Summoner/Ekementalist with the Pet specializing Massive AoE Bursts Damage.