The problem with Summoners

[Ardan]

Snip.

If you're a former SMN main, why even bother continuing to post about SMN anymore? Stop making up facts to further your arguments. People still play the job and that's a fact. It's far from worthless in endgame. Is it optimal? No. You want worthless? Go back to WAR 2.0. That crap warranted the massive buffs it deserved in 2.1.

And again, stop comparing past iterations from turn-based RPGs. They do not translate well into online action RPGs where balance must be kept. This argument can be made to any job in any FF.

[Akiza]

If you're a former SMN main, why even bother continuing to post about SMN anymore? Stop making up facts to further your arguments. People still play the job and that's a fact. It's far from worthless in endgame. Is it optimal? No. You want worthless? Go back to WAR 2.0. That crap warranted the massive buffs it deserved in 2.1.

And again, stop comparing past iterations from turn-based RPGs. They do not translate well into online action RPGs where balance must be kept. This argument can be made to any job in any FF.

The single player turn based RPGS is the resource material for all classes/jobs SE took the jobs form turned based rpgs and adapted them to an MMORPG format so don't give me that bs on about a the turn base iteration of the Summoner won't translate well. The DoT iteration of the Summoner is poorly optimized for this game while the traditional iteration of the Summoner fits perfectly. The arguments I made aren't made up they brute facts every since 2.4 the Summoner population has been decimated they either went Ninja, Healer or Black Mage because they are much more satisfying jobs. The Summoner has nothing and its painfully obvious that it's time for SE to return Summoner to its roots as a AoE Bursts Specialist with Average Single Target Bursts it's time to bring back the spiritual element to the Summoner by replacing there Arcanist abilities with Elementalist abilities. After the most recent buff most of the player base will agree that Summoner and Scholar should no longer share the same Base Class and the Summoner should be separated from the Arcanists The only people who keep saying Summoner is fine and doesn't need to change are the people that want to feel like a special snowflake and be one of the few that still uses Summoner.

Ardan I bet you'll be happy if you were the only person still playing Summoner even after everyone else has switched to the Dark Knight, Machinist or Astrologian since they will have a much more interesting play style then the Summoner. The Ninja already decimated the Summoner population the new jobs will put the Summoner in its eternal resting place.

[Ardan]

Snip.

You can't claim everyone jumped from SMN to whatever based on them not liking the job for what it is, that's just not true. Everyone has their own reasons, but the primary one is endgame. SMN just wasn't built for Final Coil and are now seeing it's flaws, hence people jumping. Last I checked, nobody is arguing against change, as in adjustments to it's current playstyle. The change you want is to feel like a special snowflake, summoning godlike beings, destroying stuff left and right. You've been whining for it since day one. Source material is just that: source material. How someone uses it depends on what they want to do with it.

And it's a bit of stretch to even presume the new jobs will be more interesting to SMN, let alone the rest of the jobs. A lot of people jumped to NIN, not all of them came from SMN. And I would gladly play the job I liked and not care what anyone says. I primarily played PUP in XI and played it well, despite its' weaknesses and I would do it again if I could.

[Ryans]

You can't claim everyone jumped from SMN to whatever based on them not liking the job for what it is, that's just not true. Everyone has their own reasons, but the primary one is endgame. SMN just wasn't built for Final Coil and are now seeing it's flaws, hence people jumping. Last I checked, nobody is arguing against change, as in adjustments to it's current playstyle. The change you want is to feel like a special snowflake, summoning godlike beings, destroying stuff left and right. You've been whining for it since day one. Source material is just that: source material. How someone uses it depends on what they want to do with it.

And it's a bit of stretch to even presume the new jobs will be more interesting to SMN, let alone the rest of the jobs. A lot of people jumped to NIN, not all of them came from SMN. And I would gladly play the job I liked and not care what anyone says. I primarily played PUP in XI and played it well, despite its' weaknesses and I would do it again if I could.

You aren't very good at arguing a point, Ardan. The reason people don't argue about changing the core mechanics of Monk or Blackmage is because they invoke some of the classic Final Fantasy feeling. They aren't exact iterations of the previous generations, but they resemble them. Summoner has been receiving flak since day one because it takes the Summoner namesake and then does nothing to fill the image. The one part of Summoner that actually tries to fit the image is its summons and they are nothing but terrible copies with no real impact on game play.

And just as Akiza cannot argue the reasons for people jumping ship, neither can you. Perhaps every single one of the people who quit playing summon quit because they don't like the horn on the AF.

While I don't necessarily agree with how Akiza wants summoner to be changed, it definitely needs one. The focus of the job should be on its... wait for it... summons.

[Vallhallix]

And just as Akiza cannot argue the reasons for people jumping ship, neither can you. Perhaps every single one of the people who quit playing summon quit because they don't like the horn on the AF.

While I don't necessarily agree with how Akiza wants summoner to be changed, it definitely needs one. The focus of the job should be on its... wait for it... summons.

I quit SMN because it felt really bland and I wasn't satisfied with its damage, and DPS classes with pets just are meh lol. SMN just feels really weak even compared to a BRD in PvP. Dots do nothing really that a healer can't heal the party from. I switched to BLM because not only are the spells better, but it just feels like BLM adds a lot more to the party in both end game and dungeons. You can't put a price on eliminating targets swiftly.

[Bigcat9715]

I quit SMN because it felt really bland and I wasn't satisfied with its damage, and DPS classes with pets just are meh lol. SMN just feels really weak even compared to a BRD in PvP. Dots do nothing really that a healer can't heal the party from. I switched to BLM because not only are the spells better, but it just feels like BLM adds a lot more to the party in both end game and dungeons. You can't put a price on eliminating targets swiftly.

Yup, in end game content and dungeons it's alot more effective to have a BLM and every other dps class (except Smn) rather than a SMN and every other dps class.

[Akiza]

You can't claim everyone jumped from SMN to whatever basedon them not liking the job for what it is, that's just not true. Everyone has their own reasons, but the primary one is endgame. SMN just wasn't built for Final Coil and are now seeing it's flaws, hence people jumping. Last I checked, nobody is arguing against change, as in adjustments to it's current playstyle. The change you want is to feel like a special snowflake, summoning godlike beings, destroying stuff left and right. You've been whining for it since day one. Source material is just that: source material. How someone uses it depends on what they want to do with it.

And it's a bit of stretch to even presume the new jobs will be more interesting to SMN, let alone the rest of the jobs. A lot of people jumped to NIN, not all of them came from SMN. And I would gladly play the job I liked and not care what anyone says. I primarily played PUP in XI and played it well, despite its' weaknesses and I would do it again if I could.

It's not just Final Coils its all endgame content that is highlighting the weaknesses and technical issues with the Summoner. The Summoner has not kept up with current jobs in DPS and to make content more challenging its SE designed endgame with little down time, massive up time and mobs that need to be burned down quickly or cause a party wipe. This content design negatively affects Summoner directly. Unless SE wants to be forced to design content around the Summoner they should overhaul it to be AoE Bursts or at leasts make Pets AoE Bursts and do the majority of the damage.