Suggestion: Single Player "Tutorial" Dungeons (no rewards)

[Ladyaceous]

I think something like practicing the dungeon with infinite health destroys the point of everything tbh. Sure there is only so much you can learn by watching videos but completely taking out the challenge of learning all the mechanics and how to deal with them with the threat of a wipe is the whole point of running dungeons in MMO's. You go through the stress of defeat and it makes victory all that sweeter. Take that away and you just cater to the shallow "i want to beat everything right now" crowd. Challenge is a good thing you need to set goals for yourself and work on them not faceroll everything with nothing in your way.

I think guildhests and stuff already serve as a tutorial but people just zergstomp them without really understanding the mechanics so maybe some single player tutorials could work not for actual content because that would be stupid but just a tutorial that teaches you about your class and how to use it in a group because there are people who struggle to learn what all their skills do and how to use them effectively with others (Bards especially struggle i mean how many times did you hear "But you never told me to play any songs" on a run? How many times did you get a raise but no follow up heals and protect reapplied?). If would benefit everyone for people to get used to their class and avoiding boss mechanics without others to carry them. That doesn't mean they should expect the game to carry them by handing them everything though.

Tyvm for the feedback I'll address what's in bold:

That's exactly the point. There would be no challenge, only education. I mentioned a couple times that there would be no reward. The point isn't to gain something tangible, but to acquire knowledge you can use to gain said tangible items.

Again, that's the intended purpose. Never been to Hullbreaker? Go in "single player mode" faceroll your way to the last boss so you can experiment hoping around the islands before you eventually go, "Ahhhh....I get it".

Miles already brought up guildheists, and we all know doing guildheists do nothing for mechanics not explained in them like, again, something to the effect of the bombs in Ultima HM.

I agree. But this alternative would hand them virtually nothing but knowledge in return.

......................

Thank you for the feed back...lmao....Moondoggie However, there is only one point to the proposed idea:

Give us an alternative in-game for the obvious need to watch a video from an outside source. The mechanics demand that you either read up, have them explained to you, get lucky on a carry, or form a learning party.

[MisterCorso]

I have always hated when I tell a party that it's my first run through a dungeon, and I take the time to ask for tips on bosses, and the only reply I get is "Didn't you watch a video?"

Maybe it's me, but I enjoy going through a dungeon or a raid without knowing everything that is going to happen. I like watching the cutscenes and seeing the mob I'm going to kill in its full glory. I only watch the CS on the first time through, and I do read up on how to beat each boss. I just don't like watching someone else play the whole thing before I have a chance to experience it.

Just my two cents... cheers!

[Vladislav]

Great idea + 1 from me

[Garlyle]

One of the things to note is that a lot of mechanics simply couldn't be done solo. Take Devour in T6 as an example - that's something that you have to understand how it works and be coordinated with your team - if you go in single player with no allies you'd literally never learn anything except that every once in a while the boss eats you, stuns you, and throws you out. To also borrow T6, look at Thorny Vines, etc.

These can't be done simply via "go into the fight with infinite HP".

SE is finding ways to teach players more complex mechanics though - largely by having similar but far less dangerous variations (See WoD's Atomos for the aforementioned Devour!). They'll never be able to teach the full 'method' for more complex fights though, because that's something that is developped by players. And yeah, there's absolutely a lot more that can be done to teach players just generally How To Not Suck At The Game... but simply doing a "go in face first on your own" doesn't teach a lot of the fights that require actual learning.

[Ladyaceous]

One of the things to note is that a lot of mechanics simply couldn't be done solo. Take Devour in T6 as an example - that's something that you have to understand how it works and be coordinated with your team - if you go in single player with no allies you'd literally never learn anything except that every once in a while the boss eats you, stuns you, and throws you out. To also borrow T6, look at Thorny Vines, etc.

These can't be done simply via "go into the fight with infinite HP".

SE is finding ways to teach players more complex mechanics though - largely by having similar but far less dangerous variations (See WoD's Atomos for the aforementioned Devour!). They'll never be able to teach the full 'method' for more complex fights though, because that's something that is developped by players. And yeah, there's absolutely a lot more that can be done to teach players just generally How To Not Suck At The Game... but simply doing a "go in face first on your own" doesn't teach a lot of the fights that require actual learning.

Thank you for the feedback. I agree with what you are saying. The simplicity of my idea is not teach anyone anything, but only to give them exposure.

This idea is not an idea to restructure any tutorials (guildheists), as it would be implausible to try and do so for every encounter.

The idea would result in something like this in Garuda EX: "Okay, so what exactly does the spiny do?" Then the group could go about figuring it out on their own and/or give an explanation that isn't detail intensive.

The idea is also designed with minimal effort from SE in mind. They could design a tutorial for every single dungeon and encounter, but I think we can agree that is very unlikely. This idea would achieve much with little effort.

Thanks to all for reading, +1s

[Core1019]

Is this actually a thing endgame? I've just got to Prae and noticed that the community suddenly seemed to turn blunt at CM. Does this sort of thing continue into the later game? What happens to wanting to figure out a dungeon as you go along?

[RyuDragnier]

Is this actually a thing endgame? I've just got to Prae and noticed that the community suddenly seemed to turn blunt at CM. Does this sort of thing continue into the later game? What happens to wanting to figure out a dungeon as you go along?

I've noticed it's really only that way with EX Primals and Coil. Nobody really gives a damn as far as I can tell for Tower raids and the other dungeons. But for Coil and EX Primals, PLEASE watch a video for those, they're far less forgiving to recover from.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

No one cares about learning blind. If there's a video, you'll be told to watch before you're "allowed" to play so that people don't wipe or take longer to farm items.

[ruskie]

No one cares about learning blind. If there's a video, you'll be told to watch before you're "allowed" to play so that people don't wipe or take longer to farm items.

So glad I have a static that loves learning blind, a FC that seems to have more than an unusual amount of people that are willing to do it as well and a couple of LSs that one can pickup such people as well. And I'm noticing there are some pugs that accept that not everything is about watching videos and having things explained as well.

[FranSeara]

Op,the best way learn new fights,DFs or primals is to "Make more Friends" in game. Friends dont mind learning with friends. Once you have a nice core group of gamer pals you be able to call in favors and help other player in your core learn fights to. "This is how I got stuck doing Titan Ex with 4 new players this moring........" Sometimes life is unfair.