You are not a fail.

[Staris]

You are not a fail.
If you get a 59 on your exam and 60 or above is needed for passing.

Oh wait yes you are.

[Ladyaceous]

You are not a fail.
If you get a 59 on your exam and 60 or above is needed for passing.

Oh wait yes you are.

I think everyone would agree that wiping is failing.

[NyarukoW]

You are not a fail.
If you get a 59 on your exam and 60 or above is needed for passing.

Oh wait yes you are.

Nah you got that wrong. Where are the tiger mommies? You have to get 95/100 to pass and that still get 5 lashes, because it is not a fast enough speed run.

The thing the is game played for fun. You can go 3x slower than a typicall run and still be ahead of the time limit bu 10 minutes, so the passing grade is more like 30.

[Lucke]

Here's what I learned as a tank (if anyone cares, probably not):

As long as you do what your role is supposed to do, I'll be happy and won't complain.

DPS: Your job is to kill stuff. I don't care how you go about it, I don't care what rotations you use. Just kill the mob(s) before it kills me.
Healer: You are there to keep me alive. I don't care if you wanna DPS or sit there with your thumb up your butt waiting for someone to take damage, your job is to keep me (and the DPS) alive. Don't care if you Holy spam, or add some DoTs or whatever, just make sure I don't die.

I've had healers who go into "DPS road mode" and actually stay in Cleric Stance so long, they actually forget to heal me and I die. When That happens I'll call them out. Sometimes, I'll pull a group and die right away, either because my gear can't support the number of mobs, or the healer can't keep up (usually both). When that happens, I'll apologize and start pulling smaller groups. I've also had DPS pull out ahead of me and start pulling mobs complaining I'm "too slow". I just let the fool die a couple times. More often than not, the healer is on the same page and let's them rot for a few minutes.

Bottom line: You are in the group for one reason: Tanking, doing dmg, or healing. I don't think wrong to call out someone who is not doing their role. People should not be told how to play. Like others have said, if we get to the end and get our tomes, the party was a success.

[Magusrex]

This should all be very simple. Communicate, don't run off without asking. If a speed run will bother you articulate why in a polite manner. if you need to go faster explain it. If you are courteous and polite you should be able to find common ground. For example "going super fast stresses me out, could we go slower?" You might get..."No problem" Or maybe " I have really good gear, we can do this a little faster, I will pause, make sure everyone is ready and gather up a reasonable amount of mobs, we try it and if it was easy next time ill get a few more." "If it feels like too much let me know and I will back off" Basically like my wife tells her preschoolers.."Use your words, say please and thank you, be respectful to one another" This should be a no brainer.

[Cadmar]

And you can use toilet water for drinking too while you are at it, I'm sure you've caught your pet cat or dog doing that and had to get into a habit of keeping the lid down. The DF is meant to bring players together to play together, not for players to abuse each other with forced speed runs. Even those with monkey butts for brains can understand that the DF is not designed for bring speed runners together, so it is unreasonable to expect to speed run on the DF, anymore can you expect to clear or much less 1-shot T9 on the DF.

Since you fail at answering direct questions with direct answers, I'm gonna keep it going just for my own amusement.

Why could I not just flip your argument around on you? Maybe it is the people who are slower and do not understand the dungeons as well that should be using PF and leave DF to the people that have a firm grasp on the content and can blaze through it? Who is to say what PF vs. DF are to be used for. Your state your opinions as if they were facts and nothing good ever comes of that.

I don't expect you to actually answer that in any coherent manner though. So I will sit back and anxiously await the next awkward response about dog and cats eating their own feces... or something.

[DoctorPepper]

The DF is meant to bring players together to play together

This is the only reasonable thing you've said in this entire thread. I agree with this statement completely, DF is meant to bring players (of ALL types) together to play together. That's the entire purpose of DF and how they intend it to be used. It's not acceptable to shame or harass people under any circumstance and the people who do that are pricks, regardless of their justification.

Your problem is that you fail to perceive the fact that there are a lot of different types of players. They do not all share your opinion and your opinion on speed running is not absolute. If you get into a party via DF with multiple people who insist on speed running you have the option to leave, the same thing goes for if you want to speed run and get into a party with multiple people who want a slow run, you have the option to leave then as well. Quit trying to force your ideals onto everybody else, you're allowed to have an opinion but so are they and if they want to speed run it's up to the party to decide, nobody put you in charge and I'm pretty sure you're not on SE's payroll.

Quit trying to add rules to the equation when there are none, if the devs intend on not letting people do something they will make changes to prevent it but instead they chose to make changes that still allow it to happen. The devs are the only people who can say how this game is intended to be played and they have spoken with their own actions.

[Niwashi]

Where is it stated anywhere that the DF is not to be used to speed run? Can you clearly define what I am supposed to use it for? I have not been able to locate that specific set of instructions thus far.

A DF run, just like any other system of putting a party together, is for accomplishing the goals of each of the party members. That's just a basic fact of it being a multi-player game and that's how multi-player games work. You join together to mutually accomplish your goals. If all the members have the same goal, then you can focus exclusively on that one goal. If different members have different goals, then you go through each of them.

The issue with speedrunning is that it's only good for one goal: just getting to the end. If that's the only goal that anyone in the party has, then it's fine. But that sort of uniformity is far more likely to happen in a PF system, where players are choosing that group specifically because of that one goal.

Because DF pulls in random players, it's far more likely to get different people with different goals. If you have one player who just needs to get to the end, another who just wants an item that might drop from the first mini-boss, another who's there for the XP from all the mob kills along the way, another who's there to work on their skills and learn all the mechanics, then you kill all the mobs along the way and kill the first mini-boss and work through all the mechanics as designed and get to the end. At that point, you've met everyone's goals, so have had a successful run.

Of course, if the DF happens to, just by coincidence, put together a group who all share the same goal, then you can focus exclusively on that one goal just as though you'd designed the group that way. Just don't count on such coincidences happening on any regular sort of basis.

[Lemuria]

You guys realize that the design of recent dungeons has been SPECIFICALLY to prevent speed runs right? They've effectively 'gated' areas now. Whether thats needing magitek keys to open barriers, or Ochu's guarding doorways, or gates that simply don't open until the mobs on the side are dead. It's pretty clear that SE isn't really a fan of speed runs.

Personally, I'll pace the dungeon based on the lowest player. If I see someone coming into the fight in lower tier gear, the last thing I'm going to do is tank an entire army.

[Kosmos992k]

No, its facts.

No, that is YOUR opinion, it is not a fact at all. This is a game, some are better than others at it, and some will find time to dps as a healer, some will not. It is not factual to call a healer who does not dps 'rude', though it is harassment.

Holy is a damage mitigation tool that happens to do considerable damage. Damage mitigation is part of the healer role (see: Stoneskin). You can get three casts of holy without worrying about your tank taking more than a little bit of damage, because the enemies will be stunned, and any damage that might get through is taken care of with Regen.

No matter how you wish to redefine it, you are demanding that a healer dps. Some will , some won't. Some like to, some don't. Holy is not damage mitigation it's a straight up offensive skill designed to damage opponents. I will not be surprised to see an outraged reply from you redefining things even more.

You want brutal honesty ? You being uncomfortable with doing speed runs is not my nor anyone else's problem and it doesn't entitle you for me or other to accomodate your playstyle. Sorry but you're not that special.

Neither are you. Sorry, but you seem to forget the purpose of duty finder. I will also say that you and several others here appear to me to be falling into the trap of believing that because you think that some part of the community defines speed running as the norm, that everyone must conform to that or they are somehow in the wrong. Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is a case of the tail wagging the dog. The game is not designed to be speed run, the dungeons are not designed to be speed run. Players who do not wish to, or do not feel comfortable speed running are in fact playing the game as intended. no matter how self righteous you wish to be about your community defined norm, speed running is not the norm. It's not a matter of you accommodating my play style, it's a matter of you playing the game in a way that was not originally intended, and requesting that others accommodate you. Sorry, but you're not special DWill.