Current classes/jobs are too simple

[Sylkis]

"Opportunities" basically means you want optional mechanics. This...kinda already exists. For example, the rocks in Garuda HM are now considered "optional." The pillars in the Fenrir fight are technically optional, as you can survive without them.

All optional mechanics are from overgeared faceroll battles. Unfortunately, all the current content have hard enrages that leave reduce the options to "Must do" or "Ignore" , rather than running out of resources or soft enrage

or stance dance manual micromanage scholar

I already do this, and its probably the only job that I find somewhat fun.




About the difficulty stuff: it can be a new class/job and not a change to the current ones.

[Ryans]

Pushing buttons constantly doesn't make it a more involved system. I'd rather have the combat system of FFXIV 1.23 back. It has a lot more depth than the system we have now, in my opinion. Weapon skills costed between 1,000 and 1,500 TP and weapon skills each had individual cool downs. The first skill of a combo made the next skills have no cost so TP management and landing your weapon skills had a huge impact on your performance. TP was regenerated by your auto attacks and it topped out at 3,000. You could save up to 3,000 TP and then use two or three full combos for a burn phase or use your TP as you got to 1,000. On top of that, you had to factor in things like what to do if the third weapon skill of a combo was on cool down but you had 3,000 TP. Do you wait for the finisher to be ready or do you use the first two weapon skills even though it costs just as much TP as a full combo.

It was slower paced and required more thought. There were still rotations that you could do in ideal situations, but you had to consider that every second you aren't hitting something is that much less TP generated. If a boss was off doing a special then you weren't automatically restoring TP like we do now, but your cool downs were still ticking down. That meant that by the time the boss was targetable again you might need to be using a different combo than what the "rotation" would dictate. The boss could also interrupt a combo by going off some where and you are sitting there having used 1,000 TP but only used one weapon skill of the combo. It really allowed for players to excel as an individual because of how much performance was based on timing and knowledge of your job rather than memorizing a rotation and avoiding bright red boxes on the ground.

[Kiara]

There's definitely some truth to the OP. As Warlyx said:

simple mechancis = harder rotations
harder mechanics = simple rotations

choose 1 , because easy easy is boring and hard hard drives ppl mad and away from the game...

While it's nice that we have Boss Fights / Raids that are beyond the traditional Tank 'n Spank, the fundamental issue of going with the current is that with Harder Mechanics (Gimmick-heavy, Team Jump Rope stuff), and Simpler Job Rotations...

1. It's more about watching YouTube and Learning the Gimmicks each Fight, than it is about going deep into your Job.

2. After the initial "buzz" and newness wears off, it becomes extremely boring. I've seen people fall asleep in Titan Extreme (they do the same dodging / avoiding, they know what's coming next, and then eventually fall asleep get knocked off, and apologize after, LOL).

Vs.

Something with Simpler Mechanics, but Harder Job Rotations / Skill Trees allows each Battle to be more interesting, like a Street Fighter match. No 2 matches ever have to be the same. You can pull off various combos and react to situations differently.

One way to possibly get this is via Skillchains (Renkei) or some way to Chain Individual Limit Breaks together (like CHRONO TRIGGER's Triple Tech System), where you can string certain Weaponskills (or if we have Individual Limit Breaks) string those together in a certain order to create "Custom Combos" (and Bonus Effects).

Something like that would add some interesting layers to Combat in FF XIV.

[Ryans]

One way to possibly get this is via Skillchains (Renkei) or some way to Chain Individual Limit Breaks together (like CHRONO TRIGGER's Triple Tech System), where you can string certain Weaponskills (or if we have Individual Limit Breaks) string those together in a certain order to create "Custom Combos" (and Bonus Effects).

Something like that would add some interesting layers to Combat in FF XIV.

I've personally wanted this for a while now. Make the combat less about individual dps and more about group actions. Instead of having dps bring the bosses HP bar down faster the better they execute their rotations, have a personal limit break bar that fills up based on your individual performance. The better you personally do, the faster the bar fills up. Then you can use that limit break individually or combine it with other players to do combos. I'm not saying have DDs stop doing damage, I am saying have bosses with increased defense against actions or huge HP pools that require limit breaks to really make dents in them. Regular adds would still be the same and taken out normally.

You could still whittle away a bosses HP bar without any kind of team work, but it would die significantly faster with proper limit break combo executions.

It would sort of merge together the current system with the 1.23 system. You still have to hit buttons constantly, but you get a slower, more deliberate system on top of that.

[Cynfael]

Today I've experienced BLMs in DF who do things like open with Flare (no AF) and start casting Freeze once in UI. Also had DRGs spam RoT (without HT, mind you) on 2 targets.

Please do not make basic job gameplay any more difficult for these people, because the rest of us are already suffering for it.

Please do continue to add fun and beneficial utility to classes so that those who want to play a little better or find creative solutions to mechanics can have more actions to choose from, though. BLM Aetherial Manipulation is a great example of such a skill that good BLMs learn to use, but very casual BLMs can pretty much ignore outside of end-game without giving anyone a huge headache.

[Izsha]

It's a different philosophy. At 1st I hated this games simplistic combat too, but I've come to see a lot of merit in their choice.

The more complex a class is the harder it is to balance. If drg isn't competing with nin, make slight pot buffs and it's fine. In games with more elaborate combat systems, skill trees, player freedom, classed are forever in a state of imbalance and that really sucks the fun out of a game.

SE has chosen to have simplistic classes, and exchange them for elaborate encounter design. This allows easily managed class parity, and unique encounters. In, say, ffxi, the jobs were all absurdly unique and had some special synergies, but fights were really extremely bland because any of the more unique fights immediately catered towards a subset of jobs with aligned strengths to the encounter.

I have come to accept, and even embrace this new design model. Every fight is unique and memorable while jobs are all useful and playable, if a little simple. This also aids the game in hooking new players without confusing or overwhelming them.

I have slowly come to really dig this approach. I would, however like to see boss AI mix things up a bit to take some of the 'boredom' out of played out contenr. But to SE'S credit they have slowly been moving towards more random elements. Shiva weapon swaps, newer dungeon bosses like vigil HM final boss and a bunch more in recent patches. They are starting to toy with the idea of randomization and i think if they can continue intelligently down that path, this game will be quite a ride in the long run.

[Sylkis]

It's a different philosophy. At 1st I hated this games simplistic combat too, but I've come to see a lot of merit in their choice.

I would agree if this was a 1-8 player game - it would be quite good. But in an MMO replay value is an issue...

MOBAs are forever in a state of imbalance, but I think they are doing pretty good. Same with PvP in other games.

[Izsha]

It is a 1 to 8 player game! If you raid anyway :P

MOBA s are a different animal. Your class sucks? You can change it the next match in 10 min. They have hundreds of Champions but only a handful relevant at any time. If you apply that to our jobs you'd have half the classes benched and that doesn't work in an MMO. All classes need to be viable. MOBA s can afford to have 80% of their classes suck and it's not a detriment because balance is based on player skill because it's pvp. Players create balance. In pve mmos all classes must be playable against the environment or you get a really angry playerbase. Game designer creates balance.

[Kazumac]

It is a turn off to a lot but benefit to some. I am not bothered by the simplicity as I can focus on other aspects. It has also been great that it is at the right level for my wife who is a non gamer prior to this. The entry barrier was very low. Now I do long sometimes for a more exciting combat experience (loved Tera for that reason... Hated it for everything else lol). But also on the flip side this game is more relaxing to play in some ways due to not having to fight with difficult job designs and mechanics. I guess there are pluses and minuses. All in all I'm happy with it for what im looking for right now.

[QiLymePye]

I can understand where the OP is coming from. There needs to be more to the game play. Yes its simple and its ok, but it does leave much to desire. And personally, it really involves little thought. Like OP said, its just about memorizing 1 or 2 rotations. nothing more. This is the first game I have played online where people tell me i need to watch a video to learn a fight, not because boss has lots of attacks that are random, but so I know when they are going to happen and such? what? theres no challenge once you learn the fight. As a matter of fact, its more challenging going through lower lvl content with new people than most of the higher lvl content with experienced high lvl players. All of these "Hardcore, end game elitist" who say most players don't know how to play and should learn their job and such...you choosing to go and look at a friggin video to memorize not just the type of attack, but the order in which attacks happen does not show skill.

Do you know how SE can improve difficulty of this game? Make boss AI better, put the damn RNG they have in this game to good use and stick it on Boss and mob attack patterns. That would increase difficulty. Im tired of fighting the same boss in the same fight the same way and the only way it differs is if the party has someone who is either new, can't dodge. And as soon as that happens......most of these "elitist" rage quit. Yeah...skilled players...right....