well since im not high enough level to post anywhere else....pvp

[JoshyNeurotic]

I suspect it's one of the reasons PvP MMOs are a niche thing... Everyone wants to be a predator, but when they end up being prey, well suddenly it's not all that fun...

depends on the fight you give....

[Stihllodeing]

I suspect it's one of the reasons PvP MMOs are a niche thing... Everyone wants to be a predator, but when they end up being prey, well suddenly it's not all that fun...

Mmos without pvp are a niche contemporarily.

And yes what you say is the same as saying people write letters to companies they have a problem with, hardly anyone writes a letter to a company they like saying, "Good job!". In other words, people just like to bitch.

However, most people who play online games nowadays don't get all worked up over it anymore. It's only the games that have an overly emotional player base, or games that have a very young player base.

I don't think SE wants ARR to be known as the "we can't handle it" or "<18 years of age" mmo.

[Niwashi]

Mmos without pvp are a niche contemporarily.

MMOs that have extensive or open world PvP are a niche market. MMOs without any PvP are apparently an even smaller niche. It seems that the mainstream pattern has become (like here) to offer PvP as a minor little sideline that's only peripherally related to the rest of the game. Apparently there are more players who may want to occasionally dabble in a little PvP for the sake of variety than there are players who really like it as a main focus.

[JoshyNeurotic]

i have so many complaints about MMOs these days.. pvp is just the start. what happened to corpse runs, losing xp when dying, not taking 2 hours to get to level 10 ( more like taking a week), hell levels, penalty levels, epic quest items, rare loot, guild raids to get one item for one person ( which the raid takes 10 hours), skills at pulling mobs, splitting mobs, figuring out when a mob spawns cause it only spawns once every 7 days and only drops the one item you need for the one person on a 1 out of 10 times killed, depending on your class leveling its self is a skill. some can solo, some cant, some arent any use in groups till X level... so on and so forth.

mmos these days, be it that they are fun, are way to bloody easy. ive tried about a dozen in the past while, and be it they have a certain appeal, they lack any real talent to play.

maybe im just a jaded old school gamer.

[Anapingofness]

Dunno if people mentioned it (I don't really feel like reading the posts in this thread up till this point) but at the moment there are two types of PvP in this game. The arena style in the Wolves Den and the uh... free for all? in an instance called Frontlines where I think the matches are like 16x16x16 or somesuch.

That being said, I don't know if PvP will ever be that big in this game. I know it's disappointing for some players but I know that on the other side a lot of players are happy that pvp isn't a focus, myself included.

edit: I just read the OPs post above mine and I have to say, maybe FFXIV may be too main stream for you. Perhaps you should try FFXI. It's been a while since I've played FFXI but when I left it, the game had all of those things you mentioned and then some.
After putting up w/ that stuff for 9yrs, I'm glad that FFXIV is more mainstream. I can't imagine having that much time to invest into an MMO anymore.

[nuyu11]

There are plenty mmo out there offer better PVP, this game is not designed for that. I'm used to be a hardcore PVP player and most of them always use F*** words, harassing and bullying. The community itself is almost same like MOBA... Corrupted. This is the first mmo that I feel so warm, doing emote with other Lalafell, with the gathering style that we can collect at the same node, the storytelling concept. This game is PVE base and I love it so much. I don't want to be a prick like I used to be, kill player who interrupt me at my farming area, the player that I don't like, my guild dispute, and with the most immoral actions is farm from lowbies for gold and mats A.K.A stealing.

[Niwashi]

what happened to corpse runs, losing xp when dying, not taking 2 hours to get to level 10 ( more like taking a week), hell levels, penalty levels, epic quest items, rare loot, guild raids to get one item for one person ( which the raid takes 10 hours), skills at pulling mobs, splitting mobs, figuring out when a mob spawns cause it only spawns once every 7 days and only drops the one item you need for the one person on a 1 out of 10 times killed, depending on your class leveling its self is a skill. some can solo, some cant, some arent any use in groups till X level... so on and so forth.

mmos these days, be it that they are fun, are way to bloody easy.

Part of that change came about because games began appealing to adults. When games as a whole were more of a niche and mainly adolescent market, gamers would spend 10 hours on a raid, or make a point of being online to catch that rare once a week spawn, or whatever, because they were adolescents who had the free time necessary to do that. Now the majority of players are grown up and are fitting gaming into their free hours after they work a full-time job, so a lot of what used to be normal is now simply not possible, at least not for the majority of the audience. So some of the timing constraints had to be stripped out.

But I, too, wish the difficulty hadn't been so fully stripped out in the process, that it took either skill or at least some persistence to make progress. I think the game would be a lot more rewarding if every level you gained (right from the very beginning, going from 1 to 2) was a significant accomplishment you had to work at for a while. I still think it's ridiculous that MMOs, which make their money based on how many months people will keep playing them, try to adapt their curve so that people can finish the main content in a few weeks if they want to.