Of Tanking and WoD

[Docent]

Please do not do this.

Easier to ask to fix a character flaw than fix it. I am aware I have this problem, which is the first step.
The next step is getting my 200 remaining lights and probably never run WoD on tank anymore :P

Keep in mind that for the majority of the runs I join, there is never an issue. I just naturally run in first, MT the whole run, and everybody leaves happy.
Very rarely I will actually notice that some other tank decides to MT, and I'll just be the OT and merrily DPS the whole run.
Only that remaining 1% is where someone thinks they can out-threat me after I pull and come up to the boss and try to take over.

Like I said, I won't provoke it off him, but unless he got more STR/Weapon Damage than me, it'll just come back to me, and he's going to get cleaved for no reason other than trying to beat me at my job.

For Mangra, I think (s)he was stating if you don't take Mangra in the center, not about spinning Angra when Angra uses that attack. If you, for example, tanked Mangra near the edge . . . the fight would be far more complicated than is required.

Oh, I've never seen that done before, so I had no idea what happens if tanked on the side. I always tanked it right where it spawns, and that seemed to be ideal with the whole 4 quadrant and 1/2 red/blue floor thing anyway :P

[Ophie-Mio]

I'll start with Behemoth: Tanks having a "pissing contest" here doesn't make much sense -- all 6 tanks have some task assigned to them usually - It's a pretty simple fight, with clear responsibilities for all.

It doesn't, however, tanks wanna feel important so they wanna be in the light. They think that the tank that tanks KB is the head honcho and THE MAN! *fistpump*. So people still fight at times over him. From what I've observed though, I've still noticed tanks doing the towers. You never know what kind of dps you're gonna get in there and more often than not, on the datacenter I'm on, we have half of the alliance made up of people who are right at home in CT in terms of ilevel.

For Bone Dragon: This is the biggest encounter design error. There's 6 tanks, but really one is the MT, and then skeletons spawn in pairs at fixed HP%. If the DPS stops to kill the skeletons, then you have rarely more than 2 live skeletons up at a time.

If the higher ilevel DPS automatically switch to the skeletons, there's problems. A lot of them go balls to the wall on them before they are even pulled to the vaguely correct area, usually leading to two at the same spot or literally right where they spawned. :/

That's 3 tanks doing something, and 3 trying to help who end up screwing things up. The "pissing contest" here is due to every tank TRYING to be helpful.

It's time like this where I wish people allowed tanks to converse more or everyone had the same idea of what to do. When I run CT, I tend to ask my other tank what they wanna do more of. If they wanna try to MT more, I'm on adds the entire time. At that point, I'm gonna get myself over to a direct side corresponding to if I'm A/B/C and take those skeletons.

For Thanatos: Here we face a new problem: A boss that way too often is never picked off the "main tank" who is suddenly unable to interact with him. This is a fight where tanks are meant to provoke off each other and switch main tanking (so where those so called pissing-contest are actually the "proper" way to handle it).

From the runs I've done, I don't think this is a problem. The OT's keep busy with adds and Thanatos gets to have his individual fun. It's rare for us if more than the first two parties go invisible before he's being brought down. Normally, the issue I see is one of the tanks isn't geared enough compared to another tank or isn't as used to the fight. So they provoke Thanatos but then can't keep it.

Oh, I've never seen that done before, so I had no idea what happens if tanked on the side. I always tanked it right where it spawns, and that seemed to be ideal with the whole 4 quadrant and 1/2 red/blue floor thing anyway :P

This totally happened the other day! A dps pulled the boss and two tanks just went at like chihuahuas over who was gonna grab it. They blew through provokes one after another but nearly could seal the hate fast enough. Angra did the double floor thing early in that fight and it was in the corner, the focal point, so everyone freaked out. He did it back to back too. @.@

[Docent]

It's time like this where I wish people allowed tanks to converse more or everyone had the same idea of what to do. When I run CT, I tend to ask my other tank what they wanna do more of. If they wanna try to MT more, I'm on adds the entire time. At that point, I'm gonna get myself over to a direct side corresponding to if I'm A/B/C and take those skeletons.

My solution to all my LotA problems recently has been to queue as Marauder and just be a pseudo DPS. There's no need for 6 tanks, so I erase myself from most of the equation, and I still have provoke, vengeance and threat moves, if I ever need to save the day.

[Tiggy]

That's where you and I differ. Personally, I'll see it and take it as a challenge. When that happens, I'll usually have a threat-battle with 'em.
If someone asked me why I do this, I wouldn't really know the answer. By thinking about it for a second, I suppose it's because another tank is probably the only thing that can provide challenging enmity to benchmark against, so it's making me naturally try and see if I can match/beat it, despite the risk involved (spinning the boss, getting us or others cleaved, etc.)

Oh god please stop doing this. It's all in your head. It's not a contest. You're the kind of tank that makes those runs just awful. I'd rather your contest be "lets see if I can make this raid finish WITHOUT causing tank problems" not to be actively causing them.

[Sadana]

Hey, Guys... Teamwork 101 here: Fight the enemies, not each other. ^^v

If each team knows their part and goes after their usual mobs, there's no pissing contest and the run goes pretty smoothly.

[Snugglebutt]

That's where you and I differ. Personally, I'll see it and take it as a challenge. When that happens, I'll usually have a threat-battle with 'em. If someone asked me why I do this, I wouldn't really know the answer. By thinking about it for a second, I suppose it's because another tank is probably the only thing that can provide challenging enmity to benchmark against, so it's making me naturally try and see if I can match/beat it, despite the risk involved (spinning the boss, getting us or others cleaved, etc.)

I agree with others who prefer you do not do this. However if you can't stop yourself or use some self control on this aspect then at least make sure your standing in the same spot/angle of the mob like Angra Mainyu which I mentioned before as an example.

One of recent runs I did we had three tanks competing with each other while standing in different positions so Angra Mainyu kept spinning around like crazy which when popped it's red/blue ground AoE most of the entire raid group would get hit because no-one knew where the zones were going to spawn. It actually led to a wipe. So if you must compete with each other out of ego perhaps then do it from the same spot not different spots on the map or in different positions around the boss.

[SekhmetM]

If each team knows their part and goes after their usual mobs, there's no pissing contest and the run goes pretty smoothly.

In a perfect world maybe.

But dammit big roegadyn warrior in coerl gold swimsuit NEEDS to MT but poor hyur highlander paladin with barely iLV95 already announced MT!

[Franchesca]

JP DF's way

A takes left
B takes center/MT
C takes right

If B is new or not well geared enough they can ask other tanks to MT

It's only logical. But then again, I've heard some ridiculous stories about tanks trying to out-aggro each other in CT, surely just a myth hopefully.

The composition just kind of sticked from the previous CT raids, but both do work well enough, I guess.

As someone from a NA Database. Whenever I go into WoD, I have this mindset that's how things would play out. However, people tend to mix it up and make things for themselves complicated. Not to mention there will always be asshole tanks that are out there to out-aggro someone. Once I gotten my tank chest piece, I did not want the burden of tanking there anymore.

[Elim]

I cant remember how many times I've had to "tank" the wolfsbane on my healer during Cerberus. Actually I end up tanking a lot of adds during trash, because half the time all the tanks are on the big add auto-attacking... or something.

I do commend off-tanks that do something, or good main tanks that don't get hit by avoidable AoE.

[Mahri]

Easier to ask to fix a character flaw than fix it. I am aware I have this problem, which is the first step.
The next step is getting my 200 remaining lights and probably never run WoD on tank anymore :P

I'd try to avoid saying anything if I didn't know precisely how you feel. :P

Still, let's call out bad habits for precisely what they are.