Gridania and "outsiders"

[Enkidoh]

It's a little more complex than that though - there is still a simmerng resentment towards Ala Mhigo in Gridania due to the Autumn War nearly a century previously, when Ala Mhigo actually invaded Gridania - naturally, Gridania didn't sit idly by and let the Black Shroud turn into a war zone. Thus, they allied with Ul'dah, Limsa Lominsa and, surprisingly, Ishgard, to drive out the Ala Mhigan forces.

Ever since, it seems Ala Mhigo has been regarded by Gridanians contemptuously in a kind of "serves you right" sort of attitude after Ala Mhigo's social unrest and eventual annexation by the Garlean Empire.

Not to mention, like everyone, anyone wishing to settle in the Black Shroud has to be approved of by the elementals first, something refugees usually regard as red tape designed simply to keep them from entering.

[Fevelle]

@RyuRoots

Yeah, I agree. I forgot to mention in my post that Gridanian-Elemental relationship is closer to an abused wife/child type of relationship. In that as long as they don't make the Elementals (husband/dad) angry they benefit.

But in this case, since both pretty much benefit since this is the home of Gridanians and it's hard to leave

It's not abusive. The elementals need respect and respect the people in exchange. It's like nature itself, they are nature. If you go and disturb nature's balance, it will respond with catastrophes. It's far from abusive.

[Kaiser-Ace]

It's not abusive. The elementals need respect and respect the people in exchange. It's like nature itself, they are nature. If you go and disturb nature's balance, it will respond with catastrophes. It's far from abusive.

But Nature and The Elementals aren't the same thing. The Elementals are sentient, MORTAL, living beings just like those following them. So the only reason they have more respect is because, at one time, they were more powerful thus the parasitic relationship I mentioned. Well now they have no real power so who or what is to keep the gridanians from disobeying? Certainly not them when it's all they can do to stay alive.

The Primals are closer to being "The Will of Nature" than the Elementals are. To me the Elementals seem powerless compared to primals and even common voidsent.

[Belhi]

Are you sure that's right? I'm pretty new to the lore but that doesn't sound right to me. Are you sure your not mixing up Elementals and Sprites? Everything I've seen in questing about the Elementals and Conjurers suggests they are intrinsic spirits of nature. In my questing, I've only seen them manifest once and that was as allies during a Conjurer quest.

As for power, didn't the Elementals trigger the end of one of the Astral Eras due to the abuse of magic during the war of the Magi and the damage it was inflicting on the land?

Regardless, I'd say a fairer description would be one of landlord and tenant. Those living in Twelveswood are living in the home of the Elementals. Add to that that said Landlord has been burned badly by the behaviour of previous tenants. Its hardly surprising that the Elementals have little tolerance.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Snip

No the elementals are mortal as are the spirits, the elementals are just far more powerful. It's rare for elementals to manifest themselves at all since the Calamity occurred but prior to that they were all over the place and blasting pretty much who ever they damn well pleased into oblivion or having them devoured by beasts and monsters. The elementals CAN die, which it what has the Conjurors so concerned. As for the Sixth Umbral Era, That was caused by Amdapoor and The Proto-Beladians when their war, The War of the Magi, permanently disrupted the aetheric balance and caused flooding to most of Eorzea. It was the 6th Calamity that made the Elementals pissy to start with, thus the 1000 year exile of The Gelmorans beneath the Shroud so they could avoid the Elementals wrath. Then 100 years (Give or take) prior to the end of the 6th Astral Era, The Moogles helped The Gelmorans settle the Elementals' hissy fit so they could come above ground again.

This is far closer to an Abusive Spouse Relationship than a Land Lord-Tenant Relationship. And now that the Elementals don't have enough power to defend them selves any more it's degraded into a Parasitic Relationship the same way a Crippled Abuser is usually parasitic of their victim after the fear of abuse brain washes them into a Master-Slave relationship.

If the elementals can think (Which they obviously can) then they are by default capable of corruption and abuse of power. It wouldn't surprise me if the Elementals think that they're Gods. And my Gae Bolg Animus says they are not.

[Belhi]

The 1.0 White Mage questline seems to indicate that it was Oha-Sok, the collective rage of the Elementals, who unleashed the floods that devastated Eorzea and the reason being the gross abuse of magic. Also what seems to anger the Elementals is the abuse of nature. Whatever they are they do seem intrinsically tied to the natural world. This story is full of shades of grey. Calling the Elementals abusive would be ignoring that the acts of man have harmed them. Lets face it. The natural world has taken one hell of a hammering in FF14 and the majority of it seems to be at the feet of playerable races even if not the particular groups our characters associate with. The Calamity was entirely the work of men.

[Geist]

The 1.0 White Mage questline seems to indicate that it was Oha-Sok, the collective rage of the Elementals, who unleashed the floods that devastated Eorzea and the reason being the gross abuse of magic. Also what seems to anger the Elementals is the abuse of nature. Whatever they are they do seem intrinsically tied to the natural world. This story is full of shades of grey. Calling the Elementals abusive would be ignoring that the acts of man have harmed them. Lets face it. The natural world has taken one hell of a hammering in FF14 and the majority of it seems to be at the feet of playerable races even if not the particular groups our characters associate with. The Calamity was entirely the work of men.

"Shades of grey" sums it up well, there is some estabilished context/background to the whole Elemental affair.

Also, the issue of magic abuse is further elaborated upon in 2.x, as others on the forum have pointed out: Raya-O mentions it in no uncertain terms on the White Mage questline, all the while providing us with important clues about Amdapor's fate.

[myahele]

Haukke Manor was the place where the Elder Seed Seers and regular seed seer's lived. It was only abandoned since the people of gridania and the previous or was it current (?) Elder Seed Seer denounced the place as a place of needless extravagance at the expense of its citizens and abuse of power.

So it does seem likely that even seed seers can be prone to a bit of corruption so long as within the rules of the Elementals.

Whats funny is that Lady Haukke was a Duskwight and they HATE duskwights

[Niwashi]

... but that doesn't justify bigotry...

It has to be understandable, not justifiable. There are things going on in all three cities that shouldn't be if the world were a perfect place. But if the world were a perfect place, we wouldn't have enough of a story going on there to make a game out of. Games (as well as novels, movies, and any other form of storytelling) tend to be set in places where things are not running well, because it's easier to create the sort of conflict there that's among the primary elements of a story.

With everything going on between them and the elementals, it's understandable that the Gridanians could become quite bigoted. It's not a good thing, but it is a believable thing.