Gridania and "outsiders"

[Belhi]

Its worth giving credit where its due though. It was the Gridanians that founded the Eorzea Alliance. I see them as a well intentioned but very conservative people. None of the nations of Eorzea are without some flaws.

Also I'm pretty new to the lore but as I understand it, it was what Ampador did and the War of the Magi that lead to the Elementals driving everyone out in the first place. Didn't the 1.0 White Mage story have some suggestion that it was the abuse of magic during the Magi war by all groups that caused the Elementals to trigger a Calamity? I never played 1.0 so my knowledge of those details is second or third hand.

[LineageRazor]

Limsa and Ul'dah both have have deep-seated problems. Limsa is a nation of former pirates whose flagrant abuse of paper-thin treaties with the Kobolds is uncomfortably (and likely deliberately) similar to the relationship between the expansionist United States of America and the native American Indians. Ul'dah's politics are rife with corruption, bribery, and worse. These are problems that are recognized by the people in those nations, but there are no easy solutions.

Why is it so surprising that Gridania, too, has deep-seated problems? The people there are very aware that they live only at the sufferance of inscrutable, inhuman creatures, and that those inhuman creatures occasionally demand that they perform inhumane actions. Many Gridanians would like to be helpful and welcoming to outsiders, but in the end they have to abide by the Elementals' decisions. Other Gridanians are less welcoming; they'd prefer outsiders stay OUT, so as not to test the Elementals' wrath. Not very friendly, true, but not hard to understand.

It's fine to recognize that Gridania is not exactly a utopia. It was never meant to be taken as such. The problems it has, though, are not simple ones with simple solutions. It's also not very fair to single it out in particular, as all three nations are deeply flawed, and those flaws are well-known.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Alphinaud does make light of this in the 2.3 storyline I think. He mentioned how everyone sees each other in a stereotypical sense; Limsians are seen has shady pirates, the Uld'ahns are con artists that only care about coin, and the Gridaians are a bunch of tree huggers. As it was mentioned earlier, all 3 city states have their own major issue that outsiders or non natives take notice to.

If you want to go further, go to the chocobo stables in the Central Shroud and you can see an Uld'ah merchant trying to get a native Gridanian to sell his chocobo and use said profits to buy 2 or more chocobos to speed in production.

[Velox]

snip

And it was actually one of the primary reasons he had for starting the Crystal Braves. With the current city-states having to not only defend Eorzea but also quell their own internal strife, it's helpful to have another body that's able to transcend the political boundaries and lend aid where it's needed. To make an analogy, the Crystal Braves are essentially the Coast Guard of the region, who go in when times are hard no matter what local government needs help.

[Anna_Lannis]

I still don't see a lot of "outsiders" actively exploit or abuse nature. I do think Palpaymo once said the Elementals were everywhere in Eorzea at one point(I haven't played 1.0. so I don't know). But I do believe the Gridanians could foster relations a lot better than what they are doing; a stagnant culture is one that is quick to go extinct. The whole "we are always right and outsiders are wrong" card they play more than a few times... yeah it works both ways.

[Verence]

I could get into how the Gridanian cultural perspective is actually a fine example of adaptation to an adverse environment, but honestly I think that misses the fundamental issue at the heart of this thread; its entire underpinnings frankly baffle me. Essentially, "How can people be ______?" The unstated assumption being "in this modern age of enlightenment and understanding?" Well, to answer the first question as succinctly as possible: People are people. They are capable of every good and evil imaginable, so long as we recognize that 'good' and 'evil' are subject to perspective, culture, religious views, and personal bias. To answer the second, this is a fantasy setting with fake people who, nonetheless, are given interest and depth and life by mirroring the way people in such an environment might really be, particularly with respect to the setting's level of technological and cultural advancement.

People are people. Sometimes (often), people are unpleasant but that judgment lies with us, according to our views. According to the Gridanians, they're simply attempting to survive and look out for the best of their sometimes hostile home, an environment that will only look after them if they look after it. Unfortunately, that often means being unfriendly towards those who would raise unwitting (or intentional) hell. There aren't enough hours in the day to patiently explain the situation to every passer-by, and who's to say any of them would care for a place where they don't live if there's profit in not doing so?

In short, why are the Gridanians jerks? Because it's interesting, and because it provides them depth.

[Anna_Lannis]

Problem is, how would Gridanians feel if they were treated that way by others when they went to Lominsa and Ul'dah?

[MeanGene]

Problem is, how would Gridanians feel if they were treated that way by others when they went to Lominsa and Ul'dah?

I don't know how this is relevant at all but I'd assume they'd probably feel pretty bad about it?

[myahele]

As to why the redbellies/ poachers aren't harmed it's because the Elementals are greatly weakened by the Calamity years ago and are more or less recuperating. Additionally, in 1.0 many of the "great" Elementals were killed by somebody; they had daggers sticking out of their corpses.

By being so weak they cannot meet out vengeance/protection as they once did pre-calamity. Also I believe Kan E Senna, with the support of some padjals and seedseers, have something to do with the Elementals not going to crazy with all these new adventurers going in and out of Gridania.

I also remember from the moogle delivery quest of the lalafel merchant from uldah seen in ebony stall that was selling goods from known poachers and selling them in a round about way for a long time. So yes, outsiders can abuse the laws of gridania.

Also, by allowing more adventurers/outsiders in Gridania these people can learn to respect where leather comes from, how not to over harvest/good farming methods (?) they're also taught gridanian conjury.

Actually, all the GC leaders are trying their best to change society for their better.

[Anna_Lannis]

Yeah I want to fill the world with flowers and hugs. It just people need to make an effort to be happy. I don't see the point in living in a forest if you can't be happy.