Crystal Tower: idle speculation on the future

[Fenral]

Figured that first part out afterwards, not sure if there's much point in merging them weeks later. Guess I will, though, since you brought it up.

As I mentioned in my first post, I'm fully aware of the possibility of it being "done." I'm also not suggesting they "gate" later content, or even MS, through the Crystal Tower, since it will be obsolete well before the end of the 3.x cycle, and eventually even scaled down or patched out. This thread isn't about either of those topics, but thank you for your input.

This is more of a wild-mass-guessing sort of thread. They clearly wanted us to think there's more, but what?

[Fenral]

That, came out ruder than I expected. The whole thing is still kind of a touchy subject for me. Sorry 'bout that.

My issue with the current ending is that, by it's nature as "optional content," it is ultimately self-defeating in it's message. It tries to set up possibilities (reopening the tower in only a few short years, Nero crossing paths with Cid again as a changed man, etc.), all of which can be left up to the imagination in a story that "ends," or even given a reunion scene after the credits.

None of that can happen in a persistent world, with at least 10 years of story according to Yoshi-P, if the entire rest of the story must account for completion and non-completion at the same time (and Syrcus Tower has a pretty sticky cliffhanger). They could, of course, decide simply never to address it directly again, in which case we return to: then what was the point?

There are only a few ways they can get around that. They could "gate" it like they did with Qarn in 2.1, which considering the length of the storyline would take a ton of momentum out of the story they were sticking the gate on. That would only really affect new players, but it would help them get better gear. Still seems pretty unlikely.

The other way would be to declare it "old" content: a story that explicitly happens before the expansion. Simply giving it a different quest icon would clear that up for most players, I think, and would allow them to bring back Nero, like they seem to want to, without that moment of "didn't we leave you in the Void?" There could, of course, be expanded dialogue if you've completed CT, but it would already have happened for Nero either way.

They should do something, maybe and probably won't, but I see no problem with hoping they do.

[Pterois]

I think it is pretty obvious that Eureka will come around because of how that last Nero CS went... and because of how much the dev's love FFIII.

Will it house ultimate weapons? I don't see why not... could be the end of the Zodiac weapon quest. Which gives them a great time line to build up the weapons through lv60 and on to whatever the final cap will end up at (lv99?)

[Kaiser-Ace]

I'm wondering where these cliff hanger endings are going as well.First Diablos disappears mysteriously, then Edda's ghost makes a mysterious return, then at the end of AK HM we hear the "Defeated" voidsent laughing in the abandoned keep, now we hear Nero's gadget beeping AFTER he threw it into the abyss that we cant see the bottom of? And lets not for get that we actually don't have a confirmed kill on Gaius van Belsar, after all lesser villains have survived worse in this series so I'm not convinced he's dead either.

We've got a lot of questions that need answers but don't have them. heck some things we don't even know what the question is yet. We're just left there thinking "Wtf? O.o"

[treuhavik]

I've finally watched the rest of those scenes, and dayum... It's gotta be Eureka.

Ya know, with Alexander announced to replace Coil as the next 8-man raid, we do need another 24-man raid to replace Crystal Tower...

[Fenral]

I have two competing theories on what they might do with Eureka, without speculating too much on the content itself, and I'm curious to see what others think about them.

First, and unfortunately more likely theory, is that it will be "separate" from the Crystal Tower in the truest sense. In relative geographic proximity, but it's nature as a place entered from within the Crystal Tower will be completely handwaved with the discovery of some "alternate" entrance. Whether or not you've done CT will ultimately only affect how the handwave plays out: either you still haven't opened the tower, or "we" still aren't ready to reopen it. In the event of the latter, Sleeping Beauty's name will be dropped once or twice to appease that one guy who still cares (me ).

Second, slightly more interesting/improbable theory, is that it will be a "continuation" of the current Crystal Tower story, but tied more to XIV's own story and lore than the original dungeon. Rather than having Eureka as the "objective" of some expedition, I imagine it in this case as being a "consequence" of reopening the tower for some other story purpose (see my first post). Putting the tower to sleep without properly containing Eureka has allowed whatever experiments were contained within it to awaken, and reopening the tower has at last given them a means to escape into the outside world. In this version, G'raha is free to resume his role as plucky, self-deprecating sidekick/Allagan history expodump as needed.

As for content itself, I kind of imagine it housing Lv. 60 (or greater, depending on time of release) individually-instanced "Extreme Mode" versions of the original CT bosses, many of which were pulled from Eureka to begin with.

[Kaiser-Ace]

snip

I like a combination of the two. Lets say that Eureka is not the 2nd entrance but like an Allage Arsenal or Weapons Bay or something for Ultima like creations. Maybe even experiments that were locked up for being either to dangerous or reject/failures. And in order to access Eureka we need our good old Allagain Miqo'te back. Then our good friend, Ghost Noah (Cue Ghost Nappa Jokes) and his possessed Miqo'te sidekick decide to show us a "Back Door" into the Crystal Tower that was built by him with out telling any one. Then Cue Eureka arc by assisting Ghost Noah, G'raha, and the Noah alliance in stopping a fleet of super weapons from being released. Maybe even have you fight one of each weapon (Or maybe a pseudo version) on the way to the inner most level.

After all that place is still pretty huge. We went from the labyrinth of the ancients to the Sycrus Tower immediately, but both Cid and the Lore have already said that Sycrus Tower was just the largest and most important of the towers. I imagine Amon's mad scientist lab is still sitting some where in the "Crystal Palace" so to speak. (Wait wasn't Crystal Palace a dungeon in an old FF game too or am I Thinking of something else?)

[Fenral]

On that note, I'm not so sure how I feel about Koh Rabntah playing host to the spirit of Archmagus Noah. For one thing, it seems like a cruel satire of G'raha's (seemingly) ultimate fate, not to mention I couldn't help but wonder, "where the hell were you when we needed to talk him off that ledge?" That they set out to make a "happy" ending out of one of Final Fantasy III's saddest scenes seems like a terrible idea, especially after that brief Elia homage in the post-Cloud of Darkness scene, and having a new NPC show up just to reinforce that this is a "good" ending only serves the purpose of making those of us who didn't like it feel bad for not liking it. A bit heavy-handed, isn't it?

Going to wax philosophical for a bit:

S/he talks like s/he wants the people of today to be free from the "shadows if the past," but I honestly can't see how G'raha throwing away his own identity for the sake of a wish made by an ancient people, who we already established were cripplingly dependent on technology, can be anything but a "shadow of the past." However it is used, the tower is nothing more or less than the tool of those who use it, and any man-made object, no matter how powerful, can be made again. Especially if the current tower can only be used by people who would logically be more than capable of building their own. Especially if the "cost" is G'raha's right to make his own future.

It seems like what s/he should want is for the people of Eorzea to build their own future, one not bound to the technology of Allag, nor the will of it's now long-gone people, no matter how pure the intent. S/he has a vaguley condescending manner, though, so I can't be sure if s/he's entirely genuine. S/he's also standing right where Nero was at the start of the whole thing, so I can't help but wonder if s/he's waiting around to do more than just hand out upgrade items.

As it stands to me, the scoreboard reads: Shadows of Allag - 1, Free Will of Eorzea - 0. A subjective interpretation, to be sure, but it's the one I've been left with.

[LystAP]

snip

You know, isn't Noah usually a 'male' name? :P

G'raha isn't necessarily throwing away his future; he's merely extending it into the future. As a living key to the tower, if he were to continue living in the present; there are a variety of groups all the more willing to exploit him. While NOAH may be silent, you still Nero roaming around with the knowledge, in addition to the other scholars associated with the group. He'll essentially have to stay hidden for the rest of his life.

Although I doubt Nero is still the same after the quest line; while he would argue otherwise, both Uriel and Doga seem to disagree with Nero's self-declared 'selfishness'. What struck me was during the end run, when Nero declared that he would not only surpass Cid, but also the Allagans themselves. This is pretty substantial character development of a relatively important former antagonist, and it seems a waste to have been relegated to a side-quest, away from the main storyline.

[Fenral]

it seems a waste to have been relegated to a side-quest, away from the main storyline.

We agree on that, at least. While the CT story did bring Nero "back" and reform him a bit, because of the completely isolated context and the role he plays in this story, he can never actually influence the main storyline ever again, at least not according to the rules currently on the table.

My main issue with how G'raha was handled comes from a (possibly accidental) secondary character allusion I noticed in the interim between 2.3 and 2.5, as well as a few tertiary chracter allusions I noticed after. The primary allusion is, of course, Desch, an amnesiac guest party member who, upon reaching the top of the Tower of Owen, regains the memories he had lost and, in the urgency of the moment, throws himself into the tower's reactor to stop it from destroying the Floating Continent. The "amnesia" in G'raha's case, however, is a little different.

The secondary is where things get sticky for me, because the way G'raha's backstory is set up he much more closely resembles Zidane, from FF9. (They also have a ton of superficial visual similarities). Zidane also has a lost memory, of "where he came from," and with that memory as his only clue he goes out in search of his "home." I'd end up spoiling most of FF9 to go deeper into how that plays out, but I can spoil that his adoptive father beats the living crap out him for thinking that some vague memory was more important than the home he already had. In the same way, I wanted to punch G'raha for suddenly defining himself solely on a genetic, not even technically his own, memory, as if that was all he ever was. There's a huge logical leap in there that wasn't required for Desch, because Desch was actually retrieving his identity, but is required for G'raha.

As for the tertiary? Aya Brea, from Parasite Eve, and Yuna, from Final Fantasy X. For both, just note the eyes. Aya's internal struggle with maintaining her own idenity in spite of awakening as a genetic superhuman is, of course, the core conflict of Parasite Eve, and G'raha's "get a load of my glowing eyes" closeup is, perhaps unintentionally, a direct callback. Yuna, well, two-tone eyes, destined to sacrifice herself for the good of all mankind? A bit of a stretch, I guess, since while G'raha is sacrificing his current self, he isn't technically dead, but my feelings towards both characters are the same. In that I'd smash the ancients for either.

And no, I didn't say he was "throwing away" his future, merely denying himself the right to participate in the creation of that future. Seeing him reduced to the "you're so wonderful Mister Warrior of Light" role after everything we went through together wasn't, for me, the satisfying character resolution that I know it was intended to be.

"Oh, but he does have a future! It's the one you create!"

Yeah, I get it, but it's a tragically passive exit for a character who introduced himself by completing your quest objectives for you. Even though they apparently thought sealing a teenage catboy inside a giant phallic symbol was a perfect way to represent the bright future of all mankind (which is, I guess, impressive in it's own way) I can't help but feel like he deserved more as a character in the playable time-frame of ARR.

Which wraps right around into that Eureka tease they ended on, and the ongoing discussion of would they really end it there? No point in lighting the Ahriman signal to ask for spoilers (though I'm sure his eye is watching, and probably judging me), but they did manage to leave us with a surprising amount to chew on.


(Ammendment: there's also one GIANT FFXIII character reference I forgot to include in the above. Let's just say it felt like he was finishing his Focus and setting me on mine.)